Indian players ! Before u buy ... coming from a PA 900 owner

[AjitVGupta]

I had a PA 900 .. did away with towards Nov 2017 end
This post is just to make you aware of the Indian sound pack that Furtados advertises and in general, what should Indian players should watch out for

If wrong, pardon my assumption I make is that PA 900 has almost identical operations of the PA 700 ..

On the Indian Sound Set ..
(1) The tabla Rhythm you hear here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FpEZ8p ... m-comments
are actually parts of LOOPED AUDIO SAMPLES being keyed ... and NOT played from a Drum Kit.
Pros :- Loud Punchy volume
Cons :- Try increasing the Tempo of the tabla rhythm / This utilizes an entire Bank / You cant "Edit" the style
(2) Most of the supplied voices are actually TWEAKED form of the internal patches. The rest are not worth. for e.g. If you are a serious musician, you wont use the inbuilt harmonium voice. You will find Recycled patches from their PA 600 PA 50 etc .. (without any improvement in quality)
(3) There are lots of missing sounds, like veena, Classical Indian Violin etc
(4) Utilizes lot of your internal memory
To give you a perspective, My PA 900 had roughly 198 MB of Sample memory, the supplied Indian pack utilizes around 160 MB.

Its understandable why Korg India disabled comments on their PA 700 demo


Points to look out in general for Indian Players
(1) No dedicated button for Portamento etc .. You will have to set the ENTIRE L1 section to mono and to turn it off, you need to turn the L1 track back to poly. Else save it as STS / Bank etc
(2) No ... "Last key pitch bend only" kind of feature which I believe is found in other keyboards half the price.
(3) Most internal sounds are not suitable e.g. It wont be nice to play solo Violin with Portamento on, as it is a multi sample ... Try playing a vocal lead from a Hindi song using violin and portamento. You will get an idea what I mean.
(4) All the DNC's that you hear (e.g. of that of the violin moving to a different octave) are mostly another sample and NOT sort of calculated by the machine.
(4) The sound editing capabilities are very deep. U will need a lot of time to read / understand the manual. So consider the learning curve.

Hope it helps ..... I have said this in perspective of PA 900, if the PA 700 is vastly different (which I dont think so) please correct me.

Thanks
Ajit

[Vkhandelwal]

I had a PA 900 .. did away with towards Nov 2017 end
This post is just to make you aware of the Indian sound pack that Furtados advertises and in general, what should Indian players should watch out for

If wrong, pardon my assumption I make is that PA 900 has almost identical operations of the PA 700 ..

On the Indian Sound Set ..
(1) The tabla Rhythm you hear here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FpEZ8p ... m-comments
are actually parts of LOOPED AUDIO SAMPLES being keyed ... and NOT played from a Drum Kit.
Pros :- Loud Punchy volume
Cons :- Try increasing the Tempo of the tabla rhythm / This utilizes an entire Bank / You cant "Edit" the style
(2) Most of the supplied voices are actually TWEAKED form of the internal patches. The rest are not worth. for e.g. If you are a serious musician, you wont use the inbuilt harmonium voice. You will find Recycled patches from their PA 600 PA 50 etc .. (without any improvement in quality)
(3) There are lots of missing sounds, like veena, Classical Indian Violin etc
(4) Utilizes lot of your internal memory
To give you a perspective, My PA 900 had roughly 198 MB of Sample memory, the supplied Indian pack utilizes around 160 MB.

Its understandable why Korg India disabled comments on their PA 700 demo


Points to look out in general for Indian Players
(1) No dedicated button for Portamento etc .. You will have to set the ENTIRE L1 section to mono and to turn it off, you need to turn the L1 track back to poly. Else save it as STS / Bank etc
(2) No ... "Last key pitch bend only" kind of feature which I believe is found in other keyboards half the price.
(3) Most internal sounds are not suitable e.g. It wont be nice to play solo Violin with Portamento on, as it is a multi sample ... Try playing a vocal lead from a Hindi song using violin and portamento. You will get an idea what I mean.
(4) All the DNC's that you hear (e.g. of that of the violin moving to a different octave) are mostly another sample and NOT sort of calculated by the machine.
(4) The sound editing capabilities are very deep. U will need a lot of time to read / understand the manual. So consider the learning curve.

Hope it helps ..... I have said this in perspective of PA 900, if the PA 700 is vastly different (which I dont think so) please correct me.

Thanks
Ajit

The efforts what they have put is far better than what yamaha India (( almost no localized content)) does. after more than a decade of using yamaha arranger I had moved from Yamaha to korg arrangers as they support time signature frequently used in Indian songs and at the same time had options to add extra samples which were missing in the Yamaha arrangers in that price range . if you had PA900 you should actually compare with PA1000 .I agree that sound was not top notch in PA600/900 but what substitute did we have ? at least we have something out there ( Just FYI.. I mostly do not use the sounds provided by them and use kronos for instruments with sampled + edited instruments from swartrax for Indian sounds, )

I can sense with your YouTube comment and the post here that you are not satisfied and am aligned too that improvement is required. but no substitute is available for now . we should in fact appreciate the effort that they have come up with localized Indian pack. if it was just standard sound/interface without localized content Yamaha would have upper hand
I am waiting for the availability of PA 1000 to upgrade from PA600 for better screen, uniform key bed feel for both my instrument ( semi weighted) and some nice new rhythms/sounds

[AjitVGupta]

Thanks for your response Vikas

I had brought the arranger at 1.37 Lakhs Bangalore.
At 1.37 Lakhs is it really wise to think we have no other options other than Korg?

I brought out the points what we Indian players should watch out for while investing such an amount ..... need not be apologetic or sympathetic to KORG

Why did I buy this ?
Simple. I too fell in for just the features and specifications instead of understanding my requirements. And from Day one I had been facing issues with a lot of stuffs, (incl the buggy OS)
Customer service ? I was asked to recreate the issue and call them.

So finally the answer to your Youtube comment

hmmm.. So what do you have now ?

Nothing for now. But keep an eye out on my Youtube channel

[Vkhandelwal]

Thanks for your response Vikas

I had brought the arranger at 1.37 Lakhs Bangalore.
At 1.37 Lakhs is it really wise to think we have no other options other than Korg?

I brought out the points what we Indian players should watch out for while investing such an amount ..... need not be apologetic or sympathetic to KORG

Why did I buy this ?
Simple. I too fell in for just the features and specifications instead of understanding my requirements. And from Day one I had been facing issues with a lot of stuffs, (incl the buggy OS)
Customer service ? I was asked to recreate the issue and call them.

So finally the answer to your Youtube comment

hmmm.. So what do you have now ?

Nothing for now. But keep an eye out on my Youtube channel

Thanks
for 1.37 Lakh did you really have any other option available at that point of time? I am sure you did enough research before spending that amount. I had too compared and went with PA600 instead of 900 as it was better value of money for me . the yamaha ( PSR series and tyros) did not have anything to offer for Indian song players.
Roland arrangers ( E series and Bk series) were also not comparable.
it is not a matter of being apologetic or sympathetic. when we are complaining about lack of something we also have to consider what others are offering in the similar price range.
I wish there was a large market for these in India creating healthy competition in which eventually we as a customer would have benefited.
All the best for your search! but I feel korg will win you back once you have tried your hands on other arrangers ( for Indian instruments and rhythms).

[josf.kumar@gmail.com]

I agree to the point that the OS of Korg is far more deeper when compared to Yamaha. However, for an inquisitive learner like me Korg satiates as to dig deeper into it and turn out to be a musician with mettle. It gave me an opportunity to create my own samples and creating sounds. Also that the in built tones are just enough to tweak little more for my requirements. The only things that bugs is the way to fine tune the styles and tones is far reaching for many of the musicians to do something what they require. Therefore many musicians are depending on third party tones and styles. However, all of them give the set containing some tweaked tones and the old styles. None of the users made their own styles and thus Korg with deep OS suffers lack of more Indian rhythms. The OS does not even permit us to share the styles as the drum kits get mis-mapped. While we are struggling with such a lot of issues Korg India sells the Indian Data card for just 350 dollars. As of now, regarding the tonal quality and Indian rhythm quality, Kotg is leading. So if you have korg pa600, or pa900, try experimenting on the sampling and creating styles with the on-board drum kits, you would enjoy the overall performance of the board. There is no need of up-gradation as i feel. Ofcourse all new boards come with new features and added new content no doubt. That does not mean the old boards must be traded for new.

[Vkhandelwal]

I eventually went with PA700 as I could not justify extra 45K for features I would never use( TC helicon vocal processor, powerful internal speakers more sample memory etc..)
The So called semi weighted keyboard is no where near the quality of one I have on kronos and was a downer too.

Will explore more and share my experience

[reinstall]

You are right. I also have pa900 and I brought Indian data sd card. (Extra money)

Why Korg use cheap plastic keys in pa900?
This keys are same in pa700 and pa1000?
I also have Yamaha PSR s750.. Yamaha use best keys in there arranger.

[Vkhandelwal]

keys of both Yamaha S750 and Korg PA700 feels cheap. should be the most important thing in a keyboard but always neglected

[pjpriyatham]

On the Indian Sound Set ..
(1) The tabla Rhythm are actually parts of LOOPED AUDIO SAMPLES being keyed ... and NOT played from a Drum Kit.
Pros :- Loud Punchy volume
Cons :- Try increasing the Tempo of the tabla rhythm
Ajit

I didn't get the Pa900 from India, so I didn't get the Indian set from Furtados, but sideloaded a few styles I found somewhere in this forum. So, I'm not sure exactly how (if at all) the styles are better from the ones from Furtados.

As with any pitched percussion, the pitch needs to be adjusted for every scale you change. So, since the entire tabla is looped in the same instrument, I can easily change the pitch of just one instrument in style settings to the desired one based on the song I play. I assume that's the reason it is done this way.

Correct me if I'm wrong and if there's actually an easier way to do pitched percussion instruments in other keyboards.

Thanks.

[pjpriyatham]

You cant "Edit" the style

Ajit

You can't edit the style like you edit western jazz kits because years of research had been done to do those samples to a near perfection. Indian percussion instruments are vastly different from those and can't use the same edit parameters used for editing a jazz kit.

I believe that since there's relatively less incentive and demand for Indian rhythms at the global market, not enough time and resources have been spared to simulate Indian percussion instruments the same way the jazz kit has been replicated on the keyboards. How often do you assume Indian musical hobbyists pay for professional software dedicated to tabla vst? Even those jazz kits are not used by professionals for studio recording.

So, a serious musician won't entirely depend on the keyboard rhythms. They're just there to help you create a rough draft of your composition. You actually need pro players to play the actual instruments in a studio later.

[reinstall]

keys of both Yamaha S750 and Korg PA700 feels cheap. should be the most important thing in a keyboard but always neglected

Yamaha PSR S750 keys are good. Not plastic type.

[AjitVGupta]

Even those jazz kits are not used by professionals for studio recording.

Really ??
I myself have used Tabla from Rhythm machines and pads ... so Plz

So, a serious musicial won't entirely depend on the keyboard rhythms ...

Hi Korg, this is the BEST REVIEW for your "Professional Arranger" that costs 1.37 Lakhs

Again to summarize (Especially for those apologists)
The original post is just a "Before you Buy" section for Indian Players.

BTW somethings more to add for the Indian Players
(1)
There was a major out of Sync problem with the supplied Tabla kit on a Squencer ... Check this video to know more about this issue
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0_iISoXoUA

(2)
Make sure that the pitch Joystick is not loose
i.e. Hold a Note say "C" ... move the joystick a few milimeters to "bend" the sound slightly, and then leave it back to the original position .... check whether your original note has shifted its scale to few semitones even after you have released your hand.

(3)
Your patch selection would mostly be via the touch screen. There is no "+" or "-" to move to the next patch.
So see if you are comfortable ... (I like pressing the buttons more than the touch screen)

(4)
For those having problems reading the screen
The Video out on the PA900 was an RCA connector, (i.e. a single Yellow Pin)
Check if your display supports RCA cable ... PLUS ... You still need to look down at and use the Touch screen for operations.

Thanks

[Vkhandelwal]

Hi Korg, this is the BEST REVIEW for your "Professional Arranger" that costs 1.37 Lakhs

Again to summarize (Especially for those apologists)
The original post is just a "Before you Buy" section for Indian Players.

BTW somethings more to add for the Indian Players

Dear Ajit
posting negative 'before you buy review' without suggesting substitute, and then calling people who post counter reply apologists? were you looking for conformists in this korg forum?
sorry to say user of this forum have their own rights to agree/disagree with your thoughts.

let's be unbiased. may be your side by side comparison with other ( May be yamaha S970-indian pack with PA1000 ) for Indian players can supply information to users in this forum to make a informed buying decision.

[pjpriyatham]

Hi Korg, this is the BEST REVIEW for your "Professional Arranger" that costs 1.37 Lakhs

It's in no way the best review of PA900.
I didn't get this keyboard for Indian styles. As I bought it in the US, I wouldn't get the SET from Furtados, an Indian distributor that develops and gives away Indian set for free to whomever buys the keyboard from them. Those Indian styles aren't a reflection of Korg's or the PA900's capabilities. Furtados have been recycling the same styles and sounds since PA50.

For the same reason that Apple's iTunes didn't take off in India and EA sports' most disappointing sales came from Cricket, if anything could be pirated, it will be pirated in India. Every kid of my generation played that game and I don't know of a single person that paid for it. So, Korg wouldn't expect people to pay for the sounds and styles and I wouldn't expect them to spend much research on Indian sounds and styles either.

Another reason is that even Indian movies have abandoned classic Indian instruments and moved on to western ones. Why would Korg still care about these classical instruments that even Indian music directors don't care for?

There's no keyboard in the market right now that can replicate Indian percussion instruments at studio quality. The alternative is Yamaha PSR S950 (which I often use at Church) and the Indian styles are a joke in that one. In fact, I bought an S950 and exchanged it within a week for PA900.

[AjitVGupta]

Hi Users

Questions coming from an ex PA 900 owner.
- Are the tabla samples seen in PA 1000 still audio loops ? or have they made it into a kit with individual hits ?
- In case they have made it into a kit, Can we tune the tabla sounds ?