Think about someone who bought a Kronos a few months ago. If the new features in the SE are not available as an update to current Kronos owners, then you have the same situation. The SE is the same price. Think about Oasys owners who paid close to $10,000 only to have the original Kronos came out at almost 1/3 the price. That was much worse than a hypothetical Kronos replacement coming out in 12 months that would probably cost a bit more. What happens to any keyboard owner when the price of their instrument suddenly goes way down in price, when it’s being blown out for a newer replacement? It’s happened before and it will happen again.Lightbringer wrote:Yes.ITguy54 wrote: You think it would be uncool to put a few bells and whistles on an old product if they were going to ditch it in a year?
If I were a new customer that bought the SE today - something which will be likely be featured as a new product with retailers even though you and I know its a paint job + 2 EXs - and then they dropped the whole Kronos line inside of a year and replaced it with a vastly superior tech, that would leave a bad taste in my mouth.
I'm not saying you're wrong, nor am I really affected either way here as a happy, existing K owner. But if I was in a situation that played out like the above, it would give me pause about buying additional products from Korg.
Kronos SE
Moderators: Sharp, X-Trade, Pepperpotty, karmathanever
+1SeedyLee wrote:I'm not going to lie, I was really disappointed by this release. I have built my whole studio around my Kronos, but it's beginning to show its age. From a hardware perspective, it's really not much more powerful than the OASYS, which is 14 years old.
I'm under no allusions that Korg are obligated to provide us with new products or upgrades. However, I'm also not obligated to keep buying their products. I have no interest in toy synths (Volcas, Minilogues). I have tried them and they did nothing for me.
If that's their business strategy, then fine. It's not a strategy that works for me. But I do wonder what Dan and co have been working on for the past few years - they must have something in the pipeline. My worry is it might be too little, too late.
If they're not going to release new models, the least they could do is ensure parts are readily available for their existing flagship so that existing users can keep them going.
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LewTheKeyboardGuy
- Junior Member
- Posts: 82
- Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:57 pm
- Location: North Wales. UK
I completely agree here.Sam CA wrote:Who's to say Korg is not going to release the Kronos Emerald edition with some nice green paint job and another selection of sounds next year? This can go on for a while. I wouldn't get into heated debates over this subject.
It seems that we as users keep hoping that Korg as an entity will do something we actually need or has benefit to us, yet each time something happens at the moment, it's not of need or benefit to us, so, in reality, expect disappointment and accept it in it's true fashion.
The colour is cool, and practical - black bottons on red.
KApro definitely sound amazing.
Italian Piano ? I have no opinion yet.
The rest is the same "rust".
My guess is that the polyphony might get hit even harder with demanding KApro PRGs.
I suspect Korg suffer financial difficulties, otherwise why we have underpowered CPU since 2015.
If there were option for exchange PRGs between Kronos, I would consider buying 61-key version (only because I have already Korg, and still hunting for semi-weight keyboard)
With this Kronos SE comes hope that we will get UPDATE (
).
Please Korg offer hardware upgrade for Kronos users, I would be in instantly!
KApro definitely sound amazing.
Italian Piano ? I have no opinion yet.
The rest is the same "rust".
My guess is that the polyphony might get hit even harder with demanding KApro PRGs.
I suspect Korg suffer financial difficulties, otherwise why we have underpowered CPU since 2015.
If there were option for exchange PRGs between Kronos, I would consider buying 61-key version (only because I have already Korg, and still hunting for semi-weight keyboard)
With this Kronos SE comes hope that we will get UPDATE (
).Please Korg offer hardware upgrade for Kronos users, I would be in instantly!
I did not compare it to any other board. When dealing with sampling and large samples WE NEED 64bit because of MEMORY....Yes Virtual is good but only to a certain extent. Korgs Kronos Operating SYSTEM is a 64bit OS on PC, why not make it 64 bit on Kronos? Because Korg is selling us CHEAP hardware thats why!!! They could have used a true INTEL CPU in this board and then it would have been expandable but instead they install cheap hardware and become like APPLE and resells the board, price gouging the crap out of us. I know a lot about Apple and Mickeysoft, I've worked in IT for 20+ years. I've built hackintosh's left and right and build my own custom hacks. I know everything about hardware and trust me the hardware in Kronos is cheap, very cheap. C'mon and ATOM CPU? Seriously!!! If they would have installed an true INTEL i5 this board could be the greatest thing ever to hit the market but instead they use a cheap CPU and resell it 10 times what the market price calls for.SeedyLee wrote:rpowell01 wrote:oh well just another release I'm not going after. I just do not believe Korg should be doing this, re-releasing the same board STILL 32bit software when they can EASILY go 64bit. And before you say it would take a long time and its time consuming Korg should get a hold of many software companies and find out what software they use to covert their software to 64bit. Most people do not even realize they use software to recode form 32bit to 64bit when its needed.
Give us 64bit and I will buy another Korg Kronos, is not then they can keep it...Korg is way behind IMHO...
Way behind because it's 32 bit? How many bits is the Montage? Mod-X? Genos?
As far as I know, the processor in the Kronos doesn't support 64 bit. Apart from hosting more sample memory, what advantage would 64 bit provide?
I wouldn't be surprised if an OS update is announced in the very near future in any case.
64bit is in fact FASTER than 32bit when processing. Yes it gives us more memory allocation but its also faster than 32bit. Think of the possibilities of having a 64bit CPU, instead of bottlenecking which we see now with the ATOM cpu Korg could have added more FX to the board. What Korg did was stay behind with the current technology instead of flowing with it. Heck my iPad Pro process is way better than whats in the Kronos!!!!
Here is what I've would have done. If I was a Korg Engineer I would have installed a NVIDIA GPU as my processor. HUH you may ask? Its a proven fact that GPU's process audio faster than CPUs so having a GPU as your processor in a board like the Kronos would have been the best way to go. I use Adobe Products and seen firsthand when I use my CPU to process compared to my GPU, which I can change in the settings, my GPU processes say a video or audio tracks twice as fast. Why hasn't these manufactures caught on to this yet is beyond me.
I'm just saying Korg releasing another board like this is not the way to go IMHO. Make a Kronos GT, super board, 64bit and 64bit OS and watch what you could do with it. Right now Korg is limited to a 32bit OS so they cannot add much more because of memory allocation.
You guys are one bitter lot. And I dare you to show me where Korg ever promised to keep Kronos updated. If you are all so dissatisfied, you should seriously consider switching boards.
Montage is a great alternative, I heard. You get almost half of Kronos capabilities for almost the exact same price. The computer connectivity is second to none, or almost (but Kronos has deficiencies in this department too, I know). The on board sequencer is certainly what you would expect from a machine of this caliber (well, not exactly, you shouldn't dare compare it with Akai MPC X, Roland Fantom X or even their own Motif line of keyboards. But then again, Kronos has deficiencies in this department too! And by the way, I know Montage is supposed to be a Performance synth and not a Workstation, just to be clear).
Then, there's Fm in Montage, which is (coming from Yamaha itself) certainly the epitome of what is possible in this day and age (as you'd expect). Well, turns out soundwise there's no big difference between Montage and Kronos, but the versatility and programmability of MOD-7 doesn't even hold a candle to the "extensive" capabilities of Montages acclaimed FM-X engine, of course (but also here, I'm sure they both have deficiencies in this regard).
There's Montages famous piano engine with its Bosendorfer and Yamaha libraries (what's it called again, I forgot), which not only accurately recreates the sampled instrument but also offers astounding customizability (My personal favorite - Sympathetic String Resonance, neat little detail). Korg traditionally lacks in this regard, no warmth or depth (must be something with the mic-placement). (But I also love to compare them both to Synthogy Ivory II, makes me laugh at times but also makes me feel angry. How could Yamaha or Korg ever be so bold as to assume they can compete with a 100+ GB library of piano sounds, laughable!)
Then there are natural sounds where Yamaha has traditionally been strong (apart from piano of course, which I already mentioned). Here again, the epitome of what's possible, barely comparable with Kronos. Although, I have to say, it boils down to personal taste. String and Brass for example are good on both of them, but not great (String legato is ok, vibrato is awful). The guitars, gosh, Yamaha traditionally delivers their best here (recycling the same old sampled stuff from Motif line without innovation, ehh... hesitation. But again, Kronos is worse in this regard... it really is).
And we could play this game for Roland, Kurzweil, Nord and what have you. And we could compare them to VST's, as many like to do. Then we would have to come to the conclusion, that nothing beats a high end PC with hundreds and hundreds of GB of sounds in terms of flexibility and sound quality.
It's a dead end. And I can only suggest to all of you to go for a used NEKO or Lionstracs to get the best of both worlds. But here's the detrimental part to that: you won't get any updates or upgrades with them either!
LOL!!!
Montage is a great alternative, I heard. You get almost half of Kronos capabilities for almost the exact same price. The computer connectivity is second to none, or almost (but Kronos has deficiencies in this department too, I know). The on board sequencer is certainly what you would expect from a machine of this caliber (well, not exactly, you shouldn't dare compare it with Akai MPC X, Roland Fantom X or even their own Motif line of keyboards. But then again, Kronos has deficiencies in this department too! And by the way, I know Montage is supposed to be a Performance synth and not a Workstation, just to be clear).
Then, there's Fm in Montage, which is (coming from Yamaha itself) certainly the epitome of what is possible in this day and age (as you'd expect). Well, turns out soundwise there's no big difference between Montage and Kronos, but the versatility and programmability of MOD-7 doesn't even hold a candle to the "extensive" capabilities of Montages acclaimed FM-X engine, of course (but also here, I'm sure they both have deficiencies in this regard).
There's Montages famous piano engine with its Bosendorfer and Yamaha libraries (what's it called again, I forgot), which not only accurately recreates the sampled instrument but also offers astounding customizability (My personal favorite - Sympathetic String Resonance, neat little detail). Korg traditionally lacks in this regard, no warmth or depth (must be something with the mic-placement). (But I also love to compare them both to Synthogy Ivory II, makes me laugh at times but also makes me feel angry. How could Yamaha or Korg ever be so bold as to assume they can compete with a 100+ GB library of piano sounds, laughable!)
Then there are natural sounds where Yamaha has traditionally been strong (apart from piano of course, which I already mentioned). Here again, the epitome of what's possible, barely comparable with Kronos. Although, I have to say, it boils down to personal taste. String and Brass for example are good on both of them, but not great (String legato is ok, vibrato is awful). The guitars, gosh, Yamaha traditionally delivers their best here (recycling the same old sampled stuff from Motif line without innovation, ehh... hesitation. But again, Kronos is worse in this regard... it really is).
And we could play this game for Roland, Kurzweil, Nord and what have you. And we could compare them to VST's, as many like to do. Then we would have to come to the conclusion, that nothing beats a high end PC with hundreds and hundreds of GB of sounds in terms of flexibility and sound quality.
It's a dead end. And I can only suggest to all of you to go for a used NEKO or Lionstracs to get the best of both worlds. But here's the detrimental part to that: you won't get any updates or upgrades with them either!
LOL!!!
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cvanselman
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:43 am
Korg Piano's
The piano samples that came with my Kronos are OK, the Berlin piano being the best to my ears. I got all of the Nord piano's sampled and they play so much better than Korgs..
I am interested in the new Italian Grand that comes in the Kronos SE. I'd like to try that out.
I also have a Nord for a great hammond sound as the Kronos is so/so. I wonder if a software update could give us the Vox engine from Grandstage?
Just hoping.......
I am interested in the new Italian Grand that comes in the Kronos SE. I'd like to try that out.
I also have a Nord for a great hammond sound as the Kronos is so/so. I wonder if a software update could give us the Vox engine from Grandstage?
Just hoping.......
If you’re going that route then include the instruments from the company Victor Wong (no, not the actor) started when he left Open Labs: Music Computing and its counterpart to the Neko: the ControlBLADE.marc1 wrote:
It's a dead end. And I can only suggest to all of you to go for a used NEKO or Lionstracs to get the best of both worlds. But here's the detrimental part to that: you won't get any updates or upgrades with them either!
LOL!!!
ITguy54 wrote:
Oh, ok. I didn't know something like this still exists. So, I stand corrected. Your best chance seems to be ControlBLADE, an Akai controller attached to a big touchscreen. But it looks clumsier and cheaper than the original Neko or Lionstracs. Would have been more interesting to see what OpenLabs had to offer, if they were still in business.If you’re going that route then include the instruments from the company Victor Wong (no, not the actor) started when he left Open Labs: Music Computing and its counterpart to the Neko: the ControlBLADE.
Last edited by marc1 on Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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LewTheKeyboardGuy
- Junior Member
- Posts: 82
- Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:57 pm
- Location: North Wales. UK
I remember a few good workstations which were around for a while, in theory great machines, in practice, possibly great machines, but there were issues with them. The fact of the matter is this, to give an example. Anyone remember the Open Labs Neko? nice rig, tried it out for a review before possible purchase. Upsides, customisable on order, you could load whatever libraries at the time, etc, your DAW of choice at the time, etc. Downsides, limited degree of expansion and the expense, not to mention one size keyboard 61 keys. the company lasted a while with a number of sales but died off and moved to other ventures. The Muse Receptor, WOW, what a piece of kit, again, great unit, expandable, etc, but the market wasn't really taking it on enough to sell in various retailers, it was more specialist and in the end Muse Research moved over to other things. There are others again the same.
The difference with Korg with the "all in one workstation" such as the kronos and before that, the OASYS, even the triton series, they had a large sales line, they covered globally and made a good success of it, yes they had to make changes along the way, but today we're fighting the devil itself, the laptop bedroom setup anyone can use. You can go to any computer store, buy a laptop, upgrade it a bit, shove on a DAW, some instruments and plugins and mix in the box. But they're not designed as live instruments, there is no real tactility, universal appeal or interfacing with a laptop that a true hardware workstation has like the kronos
Our issue here is simple and straight forward, the Kronos 2 is nearly 4 years old, as such hasn't seen a logic board change, ram change, storage controller change or any real improvements to the OS, still using 32bit software which has no benefit in today's world, an old EXT2 file system for storage, which has a 128gb limit, not good enough for todays generation of new storage media, etc.
The difference with Korg with the "all in one workstation" such as the kronos and before that, the OASYS, even the triton series, they had a large sales line, they covered globally and made a good success of it, yes they had to make changes along the way, but today we're fighting the devil itself, the laptop bedroom setup anyone can use. You can go to any computer store, buy a laptop, upgrade it a bit, shove on a DAW, some instruments and plugins and mix in the box. But they're not designed as live instruments, there is no real tactility, universal appeal or interfacing with a laptop that a true hardware workstation has like the kronos
Our issue here is simple and straight forward, the Kronos 2 is nearly 4 years old, as such hasn't seen a logic board change, ram change, storage controller change or any real improvements to the OS, still using 32bit software which has no benefit in today's world, an old EXT2 file system for storage, which has a 128gb limit, not good enough for todays generation of new storage media, etc.
LewTheKeyboardGuy
These are all valid points and I can even understand all the other people here on this forum, believe it or not. But they seem not to come to grips with the current state of affairs. There is no real contender to Kronos on the market right now, simple as that. And as outdated as the technology of Kronos may be, it's still the best there is, unfortunately.
You can either accept this (as I did when Montage hit the market) or you can complain over and over about the same things without changing anything.
Or, my last bid: you could still opt for a Roland Jupiter, which is similar to Montage (Performance synth, you know) in that it does half of the stuff Kronos does at a similar price point. LOL!!!
These are all valid points and I can even understand all the other people here on this forum, believe it or not. But they seem not to come to grips with the current state of affairs. There is no real contender to Kronos on the market right now, simple as that. And as outdated as the technology of Kronos may be, it's still the best there is, unfortunately.
You can either accept this (as I did when Montage hit the market) or you can complain over and over about the same things without changing anything.
Or, my last bid: you could still opt for a Roland Jupiter, which is similar to Montage (Performance synth, you know) in that it does half of the stuff Kronos does at a similar price point. LOL!!!
Marc, I completely fail to understand why you want to sell the nearly 4 years of complete OS stagnation on the Kronos to us as something we should be thankful for, because the Kronos still is the best workstation out there. This point of view would just excuses Korg to go on with that (from my point of view) completely whack and silly last years Korg priority shift away from their top gear. You say there still is no alternative for the Kronos, and you are right. The Montage would be a really miserable choice for that role from my view.
BUT: I might very well buy a Nord keyboard for Rhodes and other bread and butter sounds as primary keyboard next, and exchange my Kronos 73 with a cheap used 61, to use it just as secondary keyboard and home studio keyboard and controller from then on, moving beyond it's so far central role live and in the home studio, towards a mixed live setup and more pure software solutions for home studio at the same time. If Korg's Kronos concept is stuck, I for one certainly am not!
I simply don't just swallow that Korg stop of development, for my purposes. They can do whatever they want, and owe me nothing. The problem for them is, that it's the same the other way round as well: as soon as they don't care for their flagships too long, I won't care for them either any longer.
I really had a strong Korg bond so far, but after my Prologue experience and the Kronos stagnation closing in on four years now, I will seriously look for alternatives and just leave them behind step by step, if they keep the wrong priorities from my view. Simple as that: they do whatever they feel right for them, and I do what feels right for me. I'm heavily dissatisfied with the present Korg management priorities since about a year or more now. I'm not feeling bitter one bit, all is fine, and I will just move past Korg if they go on behaving like that.
BUT: I might very well buy a Nord keyboard for Rhodes and other bread and butter sounds as primary keyboard next, and exchange my Kronos 73 with a cheap used 61, to use it just as secondary keyboard and home studio keyboard and controller from then on, moving beyond it's so far central role live and in the home studio, towards a mixed live setup and more pure software solutions for home studio at the same time. If Korg's Kronos concept is stuck, I for one certainly am not!
I simply don't just swallow that Korg stop of development, for my purposes. They can do whatever they want, and owe me nothing. The problem for them is, that it's the same the other way round as well: as soon as they don't care for their flagships too long, I won't care for them either any longer.
I really had a strong Korg bond so far, but after my Prologue experience and the Kronos stagnation closing in on four years now, I will seriously look for alternatives and just leave them behind step by step, if they keep the wrong priorities from my view. Simple as that: they do whatever they feel right for them, and I do what feels right for me. I'm heavily dissatisfied with the present Korg management priorities since about a year or more now. I'm not feeling bitter one bit, all is fine, and I will just move past Korg if they go on behaving like that.
Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Roland Jupiter Xm - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Roland TR-6s - Cubase 12 Pro + Groove Agent 5
jimknopf wrote:
What I did, though, I showed people (in an admittetly slightly sarcastic way and tone) alternatives and I told them that their ever demanding attitude won't get them anything, and it shouldn't. What people seem to forget is, it's still a business. And companies will listen to (constructive) criticism and advice up to a certain point. But, there is simply no right to everlasting support, as tragic as this may be and Kronos is no exception (and already an old product.)
And I still to this day don't understand how such a big company like Yamaha with its rich musical history can decide to leave it at that. They could have created something equally as exciting as Kronos (imagine a CS 80 emulation for a second, imagine an updated VL engine, Yamahas take on a piano and e-piano engine instead of just another pure sample set).
I'm equally disappointed with Roland. When they introduced the Fantom X they were top notch and headed toward the future and arguably, the Fantom X still to this day is their best product. Great sounds, a very good sequencer (Korg should take note), a very good overall concept and design. But then, with the Fantom G they seemed to have lost it.
And the Jupiter? This too could have been a very good product. It had some very nice sounds, but Roland (like so many companies) decided what their customers want. So, they went for a Perfomance synthdesign with many buttons and flashy lights (just like the original Jupiter) and didn't include a sequencer (and yes, some people like to work with on board sequencers), they didn't include sampling (and yes, some people like to incorporate different sound sources), they didn't include enough drumsets (16 drumkits, and from what I can see, these are all old samples from Fantom X era and/or older). And the overall concept didn't convince too many, otherwise the Jupiter would still be in stores.
Pardon me, but I never told anyone to be thankful for anything. And I hope my comments never came across as some sort of gospel, because I'm no preacher. And by the way, I'm no salesperson either (far from it actually).I completely fail to understand why you want to sell the nearly 4 years of complete OS stagnation on the Kronos to us as something we should be thankful for
What I did, though, I showed people (in an admittetly slightly sarcastic way and tone) alternatives and I told them that their ever demanding attitude won't get them anything, and it shouldn't. What people seem to forget is, it's still a business. And companies will listen to (constructive) criticism and advice up to a certain point. But, there is simply no right to everlasting support, as tragic as this may be and Kronos is no exception (and already an old product.)
Well, that's your choice. But I hear many people say many positive things about Nord. Personally, I was very excited about Montage, when it was first announced. But when the thing actually hit the floors, it seemed like just another half baked…I might very well buy a Nord keyboard for Rhodes and other bread and butter sounds as primary keyboard next
And I still to this day don't understand how such a big company like Yamaha with its rich musical history can decide to leave it at that. They could have created something equally as exciting as Kronos (imagine a CS 80 emulation for a second, imagine an updated VL engine, Yamahas take on a piano and e-piano engine instead of just another pure sample set).
I'm equally disappointed with Roland. When they introduced the Fantom X they were top notch and headed toward the future and arguably, the Fantom X still to this day is their best product. Great sounds, a very good sequencer (Korg should take note), a very good overall concept and design. But then, with the Fantom G they seemed to have lost it.
And the Jupiter? This too could have been a very good product. It had some very nice sounds, but Roland (like so many companies) decided what their customers want. So, they went for a Perfomance synthdesign with many buttons and flashy lights (just like the original Jupiter) and didn't include a sequencer (and yes, some people like to work with on board sequencers), they didn't include sampling (and yes, some people like to incorporate different sound sources), they didn't include enough drumsets (16 drumkits, and from what I can see, these are all old samples from Fantom X era and/or older). And the overall concept didn't convince too many, otherwise the Jupiter would still be in stores.
I think they didn't stop at all. I think Kronos will see a last (hopefully spectacular) update and that's it. And next year (or maybe in two years) we will probably see a Kronos successor. But Korg won't tell us beforehand what they plan to do, that's for sure.I simply don't just swallow that Korg stop of development, for my purposes.
That's your good right. And all I wanted people to consider is, that they should vote with their wallet. There's no other way to show these companies. They will react when sales go down, that's the only language they understand, I'm afraid.I will seriously look for alternatives... I will just move past Korg if they go on behaving like that.
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LewTheKeyboardGuy
- Junior Member
- Posts: 82
- Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:57 pm
- Location: North Wales. UK
Yeah, I remember the Jupiter 80. it made me laugh in a way as the registration stops reminded me of sitting at one of many pipe organs I work with at different churches. it did please me. shame Roland discontinued it. Why? like everything else. Remember the launch of the D05? I honestly hoped that they'd bring a keyboard version of the D50 back, but daft bugger me here didn't realise this "boutique" series was becoming a bit of a take over.marc1 wrote:LewTheKeyboardGuy
These are all valid points and I can even understand all the other people here on this forum, believe it or not. But they seem not to come to grips with the current state of affairs. There is no real contender to Kronos on the market right now, simple as that. And as outdated as the technology of Kronos may be, it's still the best there is, unfortunately.
You can either accept this (as I did when Montage hit the market) or you can complain over and over about the same things without changing anything.
Or, my last bid: you could still opt for a Roland Jupiter, which is similar to Montage (Performance synth, you know) in that it does half of the stuff Kronos does at a similar price point. LOL!!!
Kronos is rather unique in a number of ways, yep the Montage is rather new and "out there" but for me the interface is awful, it just inspires anger and a pick axe lol.
OK, I know this is going to sound rather daft, but why don't we as a forum of Kronos owners, sit down together (a challenge in physical terms so let's not do that, unless it's the catholic church's idea of Musical Chairs) set up a poll, put together a petition to submit to Korg Japan and show that we mean business here. whether we're library developers, musicians, producers, engineers, composers, arrangers, etc, we're all part of the korg family as owners, so, why don't we take the direct route? Worth a try?