Receive audio and MIDI from iPad and MacBook simultaneously

indigochild · Post by **indigochild** » Sun Sep 01, 2019 11:32 pm

Hello everyone!

I've been trying to get this setup for my Kronos2 88 working for a while now, I could really do with some guidance.

In descending order of preference, this is what I wish to achieve:
1. Receive both audio and MIDI from both iPad and MacBook
2. Receive both audio and MIDI from iPad, and just audio from MacBook

I've seen various posts where they recommend getting an active (aka powered) USB hub and then connecting all my devices to it, but I can't find any USB hub whose input can go into Kronos' USB-B port. If I connect the hub to Kronos' USB-A port - or if I connect the devices directly to the USB-A for that matter - neither the iPad nor the MacBook recognizes Kronos as a MIDI/audio device.

The setup has to necessarily be wired, and lesser the number of cables/devices, the better. Where do I begin?

Thanks!

psionic311 · Post by **psionic311** » Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:10 am

Hi, here's one possible way:

Connect iPad directly to Kronos USB.
- provides audio and MIDI
- need CCK

Connect MacBook directly to Kronos Audio IN*
- use Mac's headphone jack
- use 1/8" to split 1/4" audio cable

Then connect MacBook and iPad to same wireless network.
- Now you can use Network MIDI from iPad to Mac

psionic311 · Post by **psionic311** » Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:11 am

Also, here's a fresh idea I have yet to verify myself:

Connect MacBook SPDIF out to Kronos SPDIF IN
- use MacBook "headphone" jack
- on some models, this doubles as SPDIF jack
- use SPDIF cable

indigochild · Post by **indigochild** » Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:23 am

psionic311 wrote:Hi, here's one possible way:

Connect iPad directly to Kronos USB.
- provides audio and MIDI
- need CCK

Connect MacBook directly to Kronos Audio IN*
- use Mac's headphone jack
- use 1/8" to split 1/4" audio cable

Then connect MacBook and iPad to same wireless network.
- Now you can use Network MIDI from iPad to Mac

I assumed taking headphones out from the MacBook to feed it into 1/4" Kronos input was out of the equation 'cause there'll be a drop in audio quality. Come to think of it, I should test this hypothesis. On the bright side, the new iPad has a USB-C port so I don't need an Apple Camera Connection Kit (CCK), I can connect it directly using a USB-B to USB-C cable like this one.

psionic311 wrote:Also, here's a fresh idea I have yet to verify myself:

Connect MacBook SPDIF out to Kronos SPDIF IN
- use MacBook "headphone" jack
- on some models, this doubles as SPDIF jack
- use SPDIF cable

Turns out, Apple stopped providing SPDIF output from my MacBook model onwards, lol.

I appreciate the quick response, thanks @psionic331! I ended up sending audio from MacBook to my RME Babyface Pro over USB, and then sent SPDIF from Babyface to Kronos. I've achieved my setup, I guess.

psionic311 · Post by **psionic311** » Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:53 am

Good to hear, not many have used SPDIF.
Looks like you saved on $$$ and headache.

My MacBook is from 2011, so I still hold out hope.

I'm still happy OTB, but eventually I'll drift over to ITB.

roundand · Post by **roundand** » Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:11 am

Is there a particular reason for you wanting to run the audio of the Mac through the Kronos? If you wanted to do it the other way round, things would be easier.
As for the midi: connect the iPad directly to the Mac, activate it in the audio midi setup and route everything in your software e.g. mainstage.
What is it specifically that you‘re trying to achieve?

indigochild · Post by **indigochild** » Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:36 am

roundand wrote:Is there a particular reason for you wanting to run the audio of the Mac through the Kronos? If you wanted to do it the other way round, things would be easier.
As for the midi: connect the iPad directly to the Mac, activate it in the audio midi setup and route everything in your software e.g. mainstage.
What is it specifically that you‘re trying to achieve?

I've a Roli Seaboard RISE 49, and the DAW (I use Equator) is on my MacBook, which is why I need audio in from the MacBook. MIDI in from the MacBook is not a mandatory requirement, it's just "meh, nice to have".

I've an iPad whose sheet music I want to scroll through (I use forScore) using my pedal, which is why I wanted MIDI in from the iPad. I also love GeoShred and its patches, which is why I wanted audio in from the iPad.

Right now, my present setup is:
* iPad to Kronos USB-B, this takes care of MIDI and audio in from the iPad
* Seaboard to MacBook over USB, MacBook to Babyface Pro over USB, Babyface to Kronos over SPDIF, this takes care of audio in from the MacBook
* Headphones out from Kronos

I did consider aggregating all audio/MIDI towards the MacBook, however, unlike my iPad, my laptop is not always by the keyboard. If I aggregate it all towards Kronos, even if I take my laptop away, I can still scroll through sheet music on the iPad without rewiring. That's why I want my iPad connected directly to the Kronos. I hope I'm making sense.

roundand · Post by **roundand** » Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:51 am

That m,akes sense. I have a similar setup, including the Seaboard, but I run both the Kronos and everything Mac-related through a mixer. Have you taken a look at the iconnect devices by iconnectivity?

indigochild wrote:
roundand wrote:Is there a particular reason for you wanting to run the audio of the Mac through the Kronos? If you wanted to do it the other way round, things would be easier.
As for the midi: connect the iPad directly to the Mac, activate it in the audio midi setup and route everything in your software e.g. mainstage.
What is it specifically that you‘re trying to achieve?
I've a Roli Seaboard RISE 49, and the DAW (I use Equator) is on my MacBook, which is why I need audio in from the MacBook. MIDI in from the MacBook is not a mandatory requirement, it's just "meh, nice to have".

I've an iPad whose sheet music I want to scroll through (I use forScore) using my pedal, which is why I wanted MIDI in from the iPad. I also love GeoShred and its patches, which is why I wanted audio in from the iPad.

Right now, my present setup is:
* iPad to Kronos USB-B, this takes care of MIDI and audio in from the iPad
* Seaboard to MacBook over USB, MacBook to Babyface Pro over USB, Babyface to Kronos over SPDIF, this takes care of audio in from the MacBook
* Headphones out from Kronos

I did consider aggregating all audio/MIDI towards the MacBook, however, unlike my iPad, my laptop is not always by the keyboard. If I aggregate it all towards Kronos, even if I take my laptop away, I can still scroll through sheet music on the iPad without rewiring. That's why I want my iPad connected directly to the Kronos. I hope I'm making sense.

Hector Space · Post by **Hector Space** » Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:38 am

I’m using a cheap usb hub connected to one of the Kronos’s A type USB ports. This enables me to connect a usb midi keyboard, a usb computer keyboard, a midisport 2x2 and thumb drive all at once. No problems.

As others have said above, if you want to connect an iOS device, Mac or PC you’ll need to use the B type USB port on the Kronos. This is because these devices insist on being the HOST in a USB setup.

As above: To use an iOS device you’ll also need a camera connection kit (dongle). This miraculously turns the iPad usb into a HOST.

USB is a tedious standard that was never designed for networking topology. Ethernet UTP would have been much better for this type of setup and could even have provided power. But hey that's history!

I’ve found WiFi midi is fraught with latency issues. I suppose there's modern Bluetooth.. which is supposed to be tighter on timing for midi. Current iPads support this.

indigochild · Post by **indigochild** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:56 am

roundand wrote:That m,akes sense. I have a similar setup, including the Seaboard, but I run both the Kronos and everything Mac-related through a mixer. Have you taken a look at the iconnect devices by iconnectivity?

indigochild wrote:
roundand wrote:Is there a particular reason for you wanting to run the audio of the Mac through the Kronos? If you wanted to do it the other way round, things would be easier.
As for the midi: connect the iPad directly to the Mac, activate it in the audio midi setup and route everything in your software e.g. mainstage.
What is it specifically that you‘re trying to achieve?
I've a Roli Seaboard RISE 49, and the DAW (I use Equator) is on my MacBook, which is why I need audio in from the MacBook. MIDI in from the MacBook is not a mandatory requirement, it's just "meh, nice to have".

I've an iPad whose sheet music I want to scroll through (I use forScore) using my pedal, which is why I wanted MIDI in from the iPad. I also love GeoShred and its patches, which is why I wanted audio in from the iPad.

Right now, my present setup is:
* iPad to Kronos USB-B, this takes care of MIDI and audio in from the iPad
* Seaboard to MacBook over USB, MacBook to Babyface Pro over USB, Babyface to Kronos over SPDIF, this takes care of audio in from the MacBook
* Headphones out from Kronos

I did consider aggregating all audio/MIDI towards the MacBook, however, unlike my iPad, my laptop is not always by the keyboard. If I aggregate it all towards Kronos, even if I take my laptop away, I can still scroll through sheet music on the iPad without rewiring. That's why I want my iPad connected directly to the Kronos. I hope I'm making sense.

I hadn't heard of the iConnect product line, I just checked them out. As far as features go, I'm pretty happy with my Babyface Pro, mostly because it can be USB-powered and supports SPDIF. A friend suggested that I route everything to it and take headphones out from there instead of Kronos, which is a great idea.

Hector Space wrote:I’m using a cheap usb hub connected to one of the Kronos’s A type USB ports. This enables me to connect a usb midi keyboard, a usb computer keyboard, a midisport 2x2 and thumb drive all at once. No problems.

As others have said above, if you want to connect an iOS device, Mac or PC you’ll need to use the B type USB port on the Kronos. This is because these devices insist on being the HOST in a USB setup.

As above: To use an iOS device you’ll also need a camera connection kit (dongle). This miraculously turns the iPad usb into a HOST.

USB is a tedious standard that was never designed for networking topology. Ethernet UTP would have been much better for this type of setup and could even have provided power. But hey that's history!

I’ve found WiFi midi is fraught with latency issues. I suppose there's modern Bluetooth.. which is supposed to be tighter on timing for midi. Current iPads support this.

So that's why connecting to the USB-A port doesn't work, TIL!

roundand · Post by **roundand** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:05 am

indigochild wrote: I did consider aggregating all audio/MIDI towards the MacBook, however, unlike my iPad, my laptop is not always by the keyboard. If I aggregate it all towards Kronos, even if I take my laptop away, I can still scroll through sheet music on the iPad without rewiring. That's why I want my iPad connected directly to the Kronos. I hope I'm making sense.

indigochild wrote: I hadn't heard of the iConnect product line, I just checked them out. As far as features go, I'm pretty happy with my Babyface Pro, mostly because it can be USB-powered and supports SPDIF. A friend suggested that I route everything to it and take headphones out from there instead of Kronos, which is a great idea.

Well, routing everything through the Mac is the best solution imho. However, I thought you wanted a setup with which you could do without the Mac. I'm not sure whether the Babyface audio interface work in standalone, I don't think so. The iConnect interfaces work standalone, as far as I remember.

indigochild · Post by **indigochild** » Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:22 am

roundand wrote:
indigochild wrote: I did consider aggregating all audio/MIDI towards the MacBook, however, unlike my iPad, my laptop is not always by the keyboard. If I aggregate it all towards Kronos, even if I take my laptop away, I can still scroll through sheet music on the iPad without rewiring. That's why I want my iPad connected directly to the Kronos. I hope I'm making sense.

indigochild wrote: I hadn't heard of the iConnect product line, I just checked them out. As far as features go, I'm pretty happy with my Babyface Pro, mostly because it can be USB-powered and supports SPDIF. A friend suggested that I route everything to it and take headphones out from there instead of Kronos, which is a great idea.
Well, routing everything through the Mac is the best solution imho. However, I thought you wanted a setup with which you could do without the Mac. I'm not sure whether the Babyface audio interface work in standalone, I don't think so. The iConnect interfaces work standalone, as far as I remember.

Given my setup - 'cause I connected the iPad to the Kronos - I won't be needing Babyface if I don't have the MacBook, so it's okay. That being said, yes, Babyface Pro does have standalone mode.