PA4X SET List

[siebenhirter]

... I think you are mistaken here. Even if you want to work this way,it should be wiser to have 3-4songbook entries with names like ''stayin alive 1'' ,''stayin alive 2'' ''stayin alive 3 '' for example and have them all in the same page of a setlist ..

Maybe we misunderstood each other. What did you mean with "No reason having the same song 8times in the setlist" - think you meant " no reason having the same style in the Set-List" and also OP wanted "to save the settings of a song on one page (1-10 banks) in SET LIST".

My argument was "Due to the fixed assignment of track parameters of a SINGLE STYLE no variable style performances of a song are allowed" and is a reason to use a whole Set-List for one song - and that you meant you don't understand.

Didn't say that I don't use the SetList within the same page. The SetList is just a selection of Sb-Entries, but is not fixed somewhere in a memory-location (or Direct data) like single Sb-Entries. SetList is so variable that these Sb-Entries scattered throughout the memory can be combined into multiple units and also multiple times. Each on can be called up by buttons of KbdSet-Library in direct access without having to laboriously change the fixed location of the Sb-Entries in a new order so that they can be used on the same page.
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... .. Also, the only Limitation for each style is that you can use only 8tracks plus 4 pads ,plus the 4tracks for upper sounds you play. Otherwise,you can create 6cv's ....
The only other limitation is that you have to use the same program sound per track for all cv's in a variation,which i could understand, but there are solutions while editing a style ..

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It's nice to educate me about the structure of Korg Styles, but I'm familiar with them. Unfortunately you forget that there are more than the "Only Limitation" and the "other limitations" that justify not editing Styles or even creating additional Pads with phrases for them, but instead using ALL AVAILABLE PLAYBACK PARAMETERS of the StylePerformances of the Sb-Entries for the different design of a style sequence.

The elaborate changing of Styles (customizing Styles) only makes sense if you want to change the sequences within Styles, but this is not recommended for the playback parameters of the StylePerformances - editing Styles for variable StylePlay-parameters is redundant and nonsensically complex.

The solution with the use of Pads always is still available with SetLists to be used if necessary additional.
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... .. Otherwise,working the setlists like you work now, will cost you a lot of scrolling till you find the right setlistsong you search for. ..

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No, because it is much easier to leave the Sb-Entries on the memory locations where they were originally saved, instead of pressing them into a new row for each song separately.

Each of a Sb-Entry is suitable for multiple use by SetLists and allows to take any Sb-Entries in any order as decided. That is suitable for SetLists of one or more songs and are to select much more easy as to search for separate Sb-Entries, that previously had to be saved in a specific order. A Set-List for a Song therefore is easy to use and a reasonable summary of the Sb-Entries for the Song as it corresponds to the logic of a database query.

The most important thing - to answer your original question:

... .Still don't understand why you need a whole set list for one song ..

because of the wide variety of playback parameters and settings of some StylePerformances, for a song the Set-List is therefore well suited to use a style much more subtly as a single Sb-Entry.

The wish of the OP therefore also is implemented "to save the settings of a song on one page (1-10 banks) in SET LIST".

[korg1]

Really can't follow you right now, maybe i am tired now,i will have to read it again, but i would also like to see or hear an example of how you work with them.

For example:
1)How do you find the song you want to play ,or should i say the setlist you want to use,among let's say 1500 setlists?
That could only work if you play 30-40 songs.

2)how many kbdsets do you need to play in a song,and why you can't change kbdsets on the fly while playing ?

3) What do you mean ''no variable style performances of a song in a style'' ? you can use the same style ,change instruments ,mix, insert fx,etc , and save it as a second songbook entry for example,in case you want a total different sound or a special master effect for the whole style while playing.you can use kaoss also in realtime.


As i also said,you can use up to 6 different cv's for every1-4Variations ,so i think they are more than enough to play what you want .


You are right about setlists are not fixed somewhere,
but what is in every setlist,should be located either in internal or direct set songbook.
Setlist can't exist by itself only without the songbook entries,it will be just an empty list.


For me,setlists are just lists of songs i want to play in a gig,nothing more.
It works for having more kbdsets for a song if you like too,but there is no search list for setlists.You also have to be careful when switching kbdsets,not jumping for example from Verse of the song to intro ,etc.
That means,you will have to store the right element with the right kbdset each time.

As i said ,i would love to see how you work with them in realtime and what other ''PLAYBACK PARAMETERS'' you can use that we can't do it normally

[inox]

Because of language difficulties, it is impossible to explain
these complex problems.
And there are plenty of problems.
The bottom line is that the SET List does not have many benefits for me.

It annoys me that when I change a track (Songbook or even SET List), PAD playback stops.
It is recommended that you use the PAD Lock feature, but the other PAD will not be called when you call another entry.
In addition, changes in the SET List occur 1 step later.

It would be worthwhile for Korg professionals to study Tyros, Genos User memory.

By the way, I really like the PA4X, it's just tiring that you have to constantly press one of the buttons like a raging nerve to call up functions.

[siebenhirter]

.... l don't understand why you need a whole set list for one song .

It is yours not to understand why sometimes need a set list for one song - if it is sufficient for you to get along for each song with one single sb-entry that is ok.
I often like to use more than a single sb-entry for songs - with entries that can be used multiple times and in different songs, so entries are organized in set-lists of sb.
It would be inconvenient to duplicate these entries (in database) in order to be archived in ascending order for each of the that songs separately.

Maybe users like to archive songbook with lets say with 1500 sb-entries - but never would do this with 1500 sb-lists. A max of 50 (enough for playtime of 200 minutes) is easy to handle with a direct-access-device (containing a hughe amount of Sets with set-lists). A set-List of direct-access-device is referring to entries mixed with the internal sb-entries. The hughe amount of existing sb-entries is not lost, but can be used for songs separately, as you do and handle it. Also is no expenditure to create a simple setList to be used as you do too (just lists of songs to play, nothing more).

It is not necessary to fixate on certain methods of the instrument to be used - there is no reason not to use the sb with all its possible options in the respective case where it offers the optimum advantages. For example, you do not have to use songbook without the advantages of the autoselect function in parallel to the sb functions.
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....What do you mean ''no variable style performances of a song in a style'' ? you can use the same style ,change instruments ,mix, insert fx,etc , and save it as a second songbook entry for example, in case you want a total different sound or a special master effect for the whole style while playing......

As a style only has one style performance. If this single style performance is not sufficient for a song, the style can be expanded with playback-parameters of sb-entries (as you mentioned).

However, I do not have to optimize such sb-entries in order for a song. These entries can be used multiple times and can therefore be assigned to these set lists of the songs for which the sb-entry is suitable, without having to search sb-entries on its original locations in sb. So need no multiple entries in sb, but simply setlists for songs in set-folders of a direct-access-device.
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.. there are plenty of problems. The bottom line is that the SET List does not have many benefits for me.
It annoys me that when I change a track (Songbook or even SET List), PAD playback stops..... It would be worthwhile for Korg professionals to study Tyros, Genos User memory ...

I share your opinion that the SetList has some shortcomings, such as the interruption with running pads (even the start of the pads cannot be synchronized with the start of a style).
What bothers me the most is that a smooth, uninterrupted change of style is not possible because the automatic loading of the KbdSet#1 means continuous melodies and notes are interrupted with an ugly rumble. This is despite the fact that there is the "StyleToKbdSet" function, which only works satisfactorily and as intended in the StylePlay mode but do not with styles in songbook.

If you think it would be worthwhile for Korg professionals to study Tyros, Genos User memory, I also think also for Yamaha professionals it would be worthwile to study Pa-Series - would be helpful for both sides.

.. and why you can't change kbdsets on the fly while playing ?....

I didn't criticize that either, but - as mentioned above:

.. the disadvantage remains - every change of the set list also causes Kbd-Set # 1 to be loaded ... that is because with running styles smooth transitions due to interruptions in the kbdsets (kbd sounds) are not possible...

[korg1]

still don't get it.
Working setlist as a kbdset entries works well only if you use the keyboard as a synthesizer ,not as an arranger,for the reasons that i mentioned before :
1)no search option (you have to scroll through setlists to find the list you want for every song you want to play )
2)no cue for style
3) no option to use the same set of entries with another style on the fly(you will have to resave the same kbdsets with another style at another setlist).

I work with 4 STS just fine for every song,if i need more i just chose from the keyboard set library categories i have on internal-user or Direct.

Working so many years with bands i am used at changing sounds and scales on the fly while playing ,on pa4x is a benefit having 4 ready STS for each song .

I am sure Yamaha has not only better and ready to play sounds,
but better way of using chord sequencer as well.
The way it handles STS is better too,but it's not fair to compare it with setlist.

Setlist is just a list,which by the way,could be used for working with more kbdsets if you need too,but not use it as superior way of working with.

[inox]

As I see it, the whole point of the SET List is that I can sort the Songbook entries in any order I want to play the songs.
Songbook is a large collection of records, a mix of MIDI songs, styles, Mp3s.
Yamaha manages these individually, transparently.
In the SET List group view, selection is easier (physically),
like the narrow list view of the Songbook.
I do not agree that, as I use it (1 song -1 Set List), it is harder to find a song than it is on pages 30 or 50 of a SET List.
In both cases, the songs can be saved in play order.

[siebenhirter]

Hello,
it is ok to work with 4 STS for every song and to choose additional KbdSets from SetLibrary.

This single Sb-entry per song is sufficient and fixes its style performance to the play parameters of the style tracks. Even if up to 6 different CVs and up to eight style elements allow different sequences, this does not change the fixed playback parameters of the unique style performance.

Amount of Sb-entries limits the amount of style performances and is not suitable for being as variable with the play parameters of the background tracks (style performances) as with the real-time tracks (keyboard sets).

If there is only one sb-entry for a song only one style performance exists for the song. It is also ok if a single style performance is considered sufficient for a song.

If one style performance is not sufficient, additional Sb-entries are required in the Sb-database. As a large number of Sb-entries are well suitet for multiple use in different songs of same genre (that is without to resave styles), these sb-entries are much easier to summarize for songs in an sb- list, instead of being duplicated individually for each song in the database.

Using set-lists does not hinder working with using benefit of 4 STS ready for certain songs and choosing kbdSets from library, also do not hinder to search your entries as you like it. On the contrary, setlist are to use in parallel and without to fill the database. Sb-lists correspond to a database query - the are lean and do not burden the system and are stored for fast access to direct devices.

It is also not intended to present different ways of working as competition or superior work because there is no reason not to use them in combination. The one does not exclude the other.

After hopefully eliminating the shortcoming not being able to play smooth transitions, the biggest advantage of set lists with entry-typ style is to eliminate the shortcoming of rigidly assigned and limited style performances for a song.

Also it is ok to be satisfied with a single style performance, but - after it embody the accompanying orchestra - it should be usable more variable as being lashed to the settings of a single style in an single sb-entry. Sb-list is made and well suited also for that.

Working with more kbdsets if needed also can be done via the KbdSet library with well-prepared auto-select settings.

...As I see it, the whole point of the SET List is that I can sort the Songbook entries in any order I want to play the songs..

This generally is correct, but basically a Set-List corresponds to a database query - that is, an optional extract from the existing entries. You can choose whether you want to call them up in a sequence (previous, next via buttons or switches) or directly via the buttons of the KbdSet library or via touch.

PS: As it can be seen, the individual, transparent and separat management of MIDI songs, styles, Mp3s is mostly not rated positively by users with instruments from the competitor and they may wish for a tool as useful as the Korg songbook.