Kronos sequencer and keyboard zones

[NigelB]

Hi
I have a song which needs to have sequencer tracks playing (an arp playing through the verses, plus a click track for the drummer). The problem is that there are too many keyboard sounds required for the song, resulting in me running out of physical keyboard keys due to the number of key zones required. (I’ve only got the 61 Kronos version).
If there wasn’t a need for the sequencer/click track to be running I would do what I normally do and make a Combi with as many zones as I can squeeze in, and then make another Combi for say the chorus as an example, with different sounds and zones set up, and then switch between Combis via the Setlist mode. However, obviously if I do that with the sequencer running it will stop the seq (and hence the click track).

Can anybody suggest a way of increasing the zones/sounds whilst keeping the sequencer running? Looking through the forums I’m starting to think that there might be a way of doing it via Karma...and to be frank, that scares me a little!

[kronoSphere]

"The problem is that there are too many keyboard sounds required for the song, resulting in me running out of physical keyboard keys due to the number of key zones required. (I’ve only got the 61 Kronos version)."


I don't see the connection between having a 61-key keyboard and any problem with keyboard zones. You can very well put notes outside the 61 key area.

[NigelB]

Indeed, and that would be fine if the sequencer was playing most of the parts. I need to be able to play about 7 different sounds live during the song at a gig, 4 of which are chords etc requiring at least an octave of notes, so I will run out of keyboard real estate pretty quick without being able to switch to a new combi/prog or whatever with new sounds and zones....unless I’m missing something fairly fundamental here.

[geoelectro]

You can add a second keyboard. In my case I have the K61 and a Yamaha P-80 as a second keyboard controller. I can map sounds between both of them. I also use the NanoPad for additional real-estate.

Geo

[GregC]

Hi
I have a song which needs to have sequencer tracks playing (an arp playing through the verses, plus a click track for the drummer). The problem is that there are too many keyboard sounds required for the song, resulting in me running out of physical keyboard keys due to the number of key zones required. (I’ve only got the 61 Kronos version).
If there wasn’t a need for the sequencer/click track to be running I would do what I normally do and make a Combi with as many zones as I can squeeze in, and then make another Combi for say the chorus as an example, with different sounds and zones set up, and then switch between Combis via the Setlist mode. However, obviously if I do that with the sequencer running it will stop the seq (and hence the click track).

Can anybody suggest a way of increasing the zones/sounds whilst keeping the sequencer running? Looking through the forums I’m starting to think that there might be a way of doing it via Karma...and to be frank, that scares me a little!

use audio tracks. Obviously, I don't know what song you refer to, thus my post is simply an idea

If there is an ARP running thru the entire song, convert that midi track to an audio track. And so on, with any further instrument track.

[NigelB]

I’m trying to avoid a second keyboard...mainly due to the problem of fitting it into my car along with the band pa etc, but it is definitely worth considering.

Greg, the track in question is Rio by DuranDuran (but there will be others with a similar problem. With Rio the arp stops during the ‘middle 8’ section, but it’s there for the rest of the song. I’ll have a look into the audio track idea...something else I haven’t used on the keyboard yet....it seems the more I use it, the more there is to learn!

[GregC]

I’m trying to avoid a second keyboard...mainly due to the problem of fitting it into my car along with the band pa etc, but it is definitely worth considering.

Greg, the track in question is Rio by DuranDuran (but there will be others with a similar problem. With Rio the arp stops during the ‘middle 8’ section, but it’s there for the rest of the song. I’ll have a look into the audio track idea...something else I haven’t used on the keyboard yet....it seems the more I use it, the more there is to learn!

Kronos is bottomless. 9 year owner and I learn something new almost every day. You will get used to it.

You don't need a ' 2nd keyboard ' IMO

Rio is a great song. Sure, if you convert the recorded ARP midi track to an audio track, it will have the 'pause ' or silence in the middle

This assumes you stick to SEQ mode and have the Rio Song running,

But you and your band will have to be regimented to stay within the structure of the song. You guys will have to keep strict tempo.

I work in SEQ mode 99% of the time. I could also gig [ but I don't for obvious reasons] in SEQ mode as a 1 Man Band.

There are other Kronos owners who have mastered SEQ mode for live performance.

who is doing that sizzling sax solo in your band ?

[tunaman]

I’d suggest considering the suggestion to add a Nanopad. I bought one, and have it attached above the real-time controls via velcro.

You can map samples, chords or patterns to the individual pads and easily trigger them during a performance.

[NigelB]

This project is a side line to my main band, which is an 8 piece band...and it can be a nightmare organising it, so a few of us are trying this as a smaller project...so at the moment no saxophonist I’m afraid!

[GregC]

This project is a side line to my main band, which is an 8 piece band...and it can be a nightmare organising it, so a few of us are trying this as a smaller project...so at the moment no saxophonist I’m afraid!

few more things

Rio is a popular cover song and several Kronos owners have doped out the parts

Thus , if you google the forum , possibly find someone who has done a decent Combi, or ever better, some samples.

If it were me, I would pay for that good work, vs spending a month trying to re-invent the wheel.

For the sax sole, I would not waste my time trying to play a Sax program on Kronos. It will sound cheesy. If you are stuck to do the sax, you can find an ISO track of the solo on youTube.

Simply bring in that YT audio sax solo to your PC , clean it up with Audacity, and insert it as a audio file or sample to your Kronos.

But really, if I was you or the band leader, I wouldn't;t break a leg on Rio, unless I was very confident your band can do a good job on the vocal, drum, bass and guitar. Those 4 parts have to be solid.

Good luck

[tunaman]

Actually, I’m using Tenor Sax Vibrato (U-E032 on my K2) for some sax parts and I think it sounds pretty decent.

Definitely better if you have a real sax player in the group, but for our purposes it serves the need rather than skipping an important phrase altogether IMHO.

[GregC]

Actually, I’m using Tenor Sax Vibrato (U-E032 on my K2) for some sax parts and I think it sounds pretty decent.

Definitely better if you have a real sax player in the group, but for our purposes it serves the need rather than skipping an important phrase altogether IMHO.

I like sax and use it often, I have done some covers, such as "Urgent " Foreigner.

I did purchase SOP's excellent sax samples. Easily twice better than Kronos sax programs. That sample helps .

The ultimate problem with sax solos is all the articulation, growl and glide during solos. Cannot be easily replicated on keys. There might be 1 or 2 players that are expert at this and using a Roli.

I have spent many hours recording sax, trumpet parts. You can get away with the basic sax stuff on Kronos, but certain solos will present a performance challenge.

Have done lots of A vs B to understand the challenge.

[tunaman]

I understand your points. Depends upon your objectives, the music, and the target audience I suppose. For cover bands playing to partiers in a bar it’s probably good enough, absent an actual sax player.

Back on topic, Rio has a lot going on for one keyboard player to cover, that’s for sure. Not to mention, as Greg stated, the rest of the band needs to be sharp and in sync and the vocalist needs to be able to nail it.

[pete.m]

If you're in sequencer mode, then surely the thing to do is to program in control changes so that the various instruments you want come in when you want them. There is no way that you're going to need to be using all 16 tracks at once.
An example - on midi channel 1, program a sound that is used only in a verse, and change it when a different sound is used in a chorus, then back again for the verse, etc etc. You can probably do the whole song on four channels, unless you're overcooking things.

[NigelB]

Pete, I’ll give that idea a go as well. When you said to program in control changes to change sounds, did you mean to say program in program changes? I thought the latter would be required to change actual sounds?

Beacause of the keyzone range required for some of the sounds I will have an initial keyboard layout with for instance the chorus chord sound on the left hand side and the chorus lead synth sound on the right hand side. To be able to play both live, the midi ch of both those timbres in seq mide will need to be on the same midi channel. Does this mean that if I then use a prog change to change the left hand side to a new sound for say the middle 8, that the right hand side will also change...as it’s the same midi ch? I could filter out midi prog ch for the 2nd (right hand side) timbre to stop that happening...but then that would mean that I couldn’t change the right hand side separately should I need to. Hope that makes sense!!