Effects in Program/Combi modes

[moontom]

Just glanced at the manual but couldn't find this: Does anyone know if the Nautilus makes you do the ritual of "Copy Effects from Program" each time you build a layer/split or combi?

this is one of those arcane steps that we just shouldn't have to do in 2021!

thanks in advance....
TM

[voip]

If effects were automatically copied from each Program in a Combi, the Nautilus would soon run out of the processing capacity required to provide all of the combined effects. The Nautilus is limited to providing 12 insert effects, two master effects, and two total effects. Therefore the need to "Copy Effects From Program" is still there, and the user/programmer needs to consider the effects that need to be used to get the best sound, given the above "Effects budget". The only way round this, and still be able to have each Program in a Combi use its original effects, would be to have a bank of Nautili, triggered by MIDI from a master keyboard, which could be one of those Nautili, with each instrument running in Program mode, individually set to the desired Program, or possibly using a range of Combis having two or three Programs, where each Combi is designed not to exceed the Effects budget for the individual Nautilus.

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[moontom]

that's very helpful.
I get the why of it but sure wish it was easier....otherwise the Nautilus looks great.
thank you.....

[GregC]

that's very helpful.
I get the why of it but sure wish it was easier....otherwise the Nautilus looks great.
thank you.....

as a 10 year Kronos owner, I find its 100X better to have a ' versatile ' FX implementation, where I can remove FX , reduce FX, or add different FX to a Program.

In general, Korg FX are strong and suggested pre-set FX over use can saturate the Program/instrument. Use of FX is subjective IMO.

[moontom]

I found that w/ Krome too.

but often I would forget about the need for that step and only discover my error after building a few tracks (!). I use the Program mode to survey sounds and really like being able to know what the sound w/ factory effect is all about.

say whatever about Yamaha but that's a nice thing on Montage/MODX

[GregC]

I f

say whatever about Yamaha but that's a nice thing on Montage/MODX

I luv my MODX.

I think the Yamaha approach to FX is close to " just what you need " . There instrument samples have a strong instrument quality. Thats a general statement.

To be picky, I back off the reverb and the brightness on the MODX AP's. Personal preference and because of my studio monitors.

[bpoodoo]

In general, Korg FX are strong and suggested pre-set FX over use can saturate the Program/instrument. Use of FX is subjective IMO.

Yeah, I agree with you on that. I doubt that a song comprised of multiple programs with their original preset effects played at the same time would sound very good. They may sound great alone, but when put together, they would likely be competing with each other in space, volume, frequency, etc. within the mix. For effects that increase the level through a trim or output setting, you typically need to reduce those effect levels when adding them to a sequence track or combi.

I'm a relative beginner when it comes to effects and mixing. But I'm converging on a workflow that works for me. In my last effort, I added 7 programs into 7 sequencer tracks completely dry - no effects at all, no IFX, no MFX, no EQ. I only adjusted the track levels. Only after I finished composing and recording all tracks did I go back and add effects.

For each dry program I compared it to the original program with effects and asked myself, "Which of the original program effects are essential, if any, to preserve the original character of the sound?" If any, that track gets IFX(s) assigned.

After that it's a matter of adding effects incrementally to provide the overall mixed sound I want from the tracks recorded - emphasizing or amplifying certain sounds with effects or EQ, while lowering the level or adding compressors to other tracks, deciding which tracks can or should share an effect, etc. At that point it becomes a matter of subjectivity and iteration to converge on those effects and settings that sound good to you.

I do like to retain a completely dry recording of the song as a basis of comparison so that I can hear more clearly what each effect is doing, for better or worse. Some effects can cause a diminishing of detail in the sound you may not notice otherwise.

[burningbusch]

I find the FX structure of the Montage/MODX to be frustrating. You are allowed a max of two insert FXs per part. If you're dealing with a more complex instrument that spans multiple parts but you want them to share common insert FXs, you must recreate those FXs for each part which is a complete waste and can also be challenging to properly sync. At the common level, you are allowed two send/receive FXs and a single insert (with limited options). Send/receive isn't suitable for some FXs. The ability of the Korg to string up to 12 insert FXs per program is a god-send to sound design.

I do appreciate the elimination of distinct programs/performances in the new Yamahas. This is something Kurzweil has done since the beginning.

Busch.

[moontom]

something I hadn't considered -- the voices that use multiple slots in MODX would need to have the insert effects lined up somehow.

and agreed, the Korg method is much better for creating and developing a new sound.

thanks Burningbusch....

[Scott]

I do appreciate the elimination of distinct programs/performances in the new Yamahas. This is something Kurzweil has done since the beginning.

Hmmm! To me, Kurzweil has always been (and is still) using a version of the older paradigm of distinct programs/performances. What am I missing? e.g. Yamaha before the elimination of distinct programs/performances (e.g. in the Motif series) had individual Voices which would be combined into Performances. Kurzweil had/has individual Programs which are combined into Setups/Multis.

[tunaman]

…the Korg method is much better for creating and developing a new sound.

I agree - I love the way that Korg implemented the control… I wouldn’t want it any other way, and never found it to be burdensome or cumbersome.