Organising User Sounds (Using Samples)

[NativeAngels]

If like me you’ve a lot of samples / sounds and got to a point where you’ve run out of user slots.

Now we know that when performing a save all with factory protection off any samples linked to a user sound will also be save.

If my understanding is correct when loading a user sound has samples linked to it the samples are also loaded.

My question is if you have filled user bank 1 with sounds that are linked to samples and then load another sound on top of one already occupied by a sound that uses samples are the samples used by the old sound erased ?

My theory behind this to combine bands of user sounds (that use samples) into specific banks, ie a Rubens piano banks and another with guitar sounds. Then to load in the banks as songs require them.

Although not an ideal solution it might be workable.

[siebenhirter]

If like me you’ve a lot of samples / sounds and got to a point where you’ve run out of user slots... .

If user memory of the Pa1000 is used like a ROM memory and is stuffed in with force of all possible user data for permanence, it is not used appropriately. That is the reason why there never will be enough memory for user sounds and user samples.

Additional to factory resources (512 Sounds, 256 DrumKits, 995 Multisamples, 1981 DrumSamples) a further 512 UserSounds, 256 UserDrumKits, 15,048 User Samples are available for one single session or performance.

This amount of user data with a simple LOAD of a SET can be replaced quick and easy for each next session, if such data are well organized with "SaveAllUser" dialog to SETs with checked datatypes UserStyle, UserKbdSetLibrary, UserSound&DK and UserSample.

In addition to these individual user data and additional to factory data, a further 512 DirectSounds and 256 DirectDrumKits can be used in each session, which can be prepared with the 995 Factory Multisamples, the 1981 Factory DrumSamples and the 15,048 UserSamples in DirectSETs for same session.

Instead of stuffing and fixing the UserMemory with a lot of extremely rarely or no longer used user data, it is better to organize the user data in quickly changeable USER-SETS and DIRECT-SETS without having to complain "Not enough memory for PCM samples", "Increase sample number" or "Reached 15048 Samples".

Loading a SET you don't have to worry about reorganizing the sample memory either - when loading such SET folders containing Sounds based on User Samples, all existing UserData including will be loaded, because Samples in memory are deleted before.

It is incomprehensible where this fear comes from of not completely overwriting a user memory with LOAD of a SET but instead wasting this space with all sorts of ancient files and unused files, resulting in "out of user slots".

With Pa1000 I think UserSound / Samples only is limited by the number of prepared and well-organized SETs and whether memory is used dedicated.

[NativeAngels]

Thanks for the response that’s what I was wondering.

So do you have multiple sets with user sounds (that use samples)

[siebenhirter]

... multiple sets with user sounds (that use samples) ..

With Pa1000 (same with Pa700) I think amount of UserSound / Samples only is limited by the number of prepared and well-organized SETs and whether memory is used dedicated.

There we often had discussions here, how to organize working with user samples:
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... p?t=111124
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... p?t=112463

It is most important to know that when a SET with custom PCM will be loaded, the system will load all samples and multisamples that are used for every single sound (PCG).

This means that such SET-files are to be created with "SaveAllUser" dialog with checked datatypes UserSound&DK and UserSample, because otherwise the UserSounds of the other resources of same SET (UserStyle, UserKbdSetLibrary ...) will not find its sounds (PCGs) with user samples at the correct location.

[NativeAngels]

Not sure if it’s the same on the Pa1000 you have 4 banks of user sounds and two for user drum kits. I always for save all with factory protection off to ensure then samples are also saved.

I’ve filled all the available user slots.

So if you have seta and setb both saved with save all and factory protect off. And you decide you want to combine sounds from seta and setb into new set with user sounds. How would you go about it?

[siebenhirter]

.. always for save all with factory protection off to ensure then samples are also saved. I’ve filled all the available user slots.
.. want to combine sounds from seta and setb into new set with user sounds ..

Factory protection "off" doesn't make any sense because it has nothing to do with whether samples are saved or not - but only inflates SET folders unnecessarily!

Better ensure to check datatypes "UserSound&DK" and "UserSample" if you save SET files - else loaded UserSounds (PCG) will not not find its multisamples and samples.

For a single session/performance the Pa700 should be adequately equipped with its 1.700 sounds, 106 drum kits, 891 multisamples, 1657 drum samples. There also is the same amount of 512 UserSounds, 256 UserDrumKits and 15,048 UserSamples like with Pa700 and Pa1000.

This amount of sounds and user sounds really should be enough for a single session. The amount of samples only is limited by the number of prepared and well-organized SETs and whether memory is used dedicated. If all available user slots are filled this is a indic that there are duplicates among them or a lot of sounds, which certainly are not needed all together in a single performance.

To fill all user sound banks is no good management and it should not be intended to use these sounds common for all sessions. Memory space for this is cheap and the internal memory is far too precious to be permanently full-filled with fixed samples and to run out of user slots. Better is loading a SET to have all individual sounds and samples immediately available for the next session.
*
If a SET file is kept lean and only contains the user data that is needed for another session / performance, then this SET is quickly ready to play with a quick loading process and contains all user sounds and drum kits for the next session / performance, without having to think about whether some sounds with user samples are needed from other sets.

How to merge sounds from different sets often was discussed here ---> http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... p?t=111124 "Is this possible? (merging sets).
Merging is recommended for organizing another different combination in a next new set folder of ones personal library - but it is not a good idea to full-fill up the internal memory with it - and to run out of user slots.

[BR]

.....And you decide you want to combine sounds from seta and setb into new set with user sounds. How would you go about it?

You should take notes of every User samples assigned to Style Tracks of both sets (Sources),
and combine them manually to a New Set (Destination).

I experienced combining some sets manually some years ago and I had to take notes of every User samples assigned to Style Tracks
and I ended up with about 20 to 25 pages of papers and spending 2 weeks to combine 2 sets.
The same process is valid for combining the Keyboard Set (STS).

With Korg Pa Manager it's the matter of hours, depending on the size of the combined sets.

[siebenhirter]

.. You should take notes of every User samples assigned to Style Tracks of both sets (Sources), and combine them manually to a New Set (Destination)....

The same that was said about the number of Sounds, DrumKits, Multisamples, DrumSamples, UserSounds, UserDrumKits of course applies to other user data like user styles, user keyboardset and user pads.

For a single session/performance the Pa700/1000 should be adequately equipped with its 576 User-Styles that can used with user samples.
Instead of using the internal memory to be full-filled with constant user data (with risk of run outs), safe these sessions data to a SET folder. For further sessions with other user data simply another SET is to load.

If done so it is not necessary to take notes for User Samples assigned to style Tracks of SETS - that is in case a SET is saved with its user data of a session. That is because in a session sounds of style tracks refer to sounds in sound banks (PCGs), that are linked to its multisamples and samples in memory.

The same links between sound number in tracks of a user style, fixed to a sound number in user-soundbank in internal memory occurs as link if these data are safed to a SET.

But as mentioned in previous posting, if safing a SET folder for a session, it is important to ensure that datatypes containing user data are checked, like "UserSound&DK", "UserSample" and of coarse "UserStyles" in case its track refer to UserSounds.

If loading such SETs, user Sounds from user Style are linked correctly to user Sound in user sound bank. Loading user sounds into internal memory automatically create links to user multisamples and user samples in internal memory.

So notes of user samples assigned to style tracks never should be taken notes in case of strict organizing SETs for sessions. These only is necessary, when resources with user samples are splitted on several sets and want to be merged in a new SET. Then you have to assign the user sounds to the tracks of the musical resources of user sounds locations in internal memory, before the new SET will be written.

[NativeAngels]

I have yet to use user sounds In styles, but I get what you mean by having a set containing styles, keyboard sets, and user sounds for a particular set ie a set for country and western, with country and western styles, keyboard sets and user sounds (samples) .

Is this correct siebenhirter ?

[siebenhirter]

... having a set containing styles, keyboard sets, and user sounds for a particular set ...

Yes, that is what I meant.

Running out of user slots only happens if user memory is considered and configured like one indivisible, unique constant read-only memory, that is containing all resources for every conceivable session.

Instead, user memory should be accepted as it is intended: as mobile memory, which can be reconfigured at any time according to a new situation by loading a SET.
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Particular SETs tailored to sessions do not require all of the UserSlots. If one UserBank's musical resources is kept free for merging user data from another SET, you don't even have to note user samples assigned to sounds in tracks of styles or kbdsets-library. That automatically is organized via loading a the user sound bank to that sound bank kept free from for merging.

[NativeAngels]

Its also possible to have a songbook file for each set im not sure about external set list. If the samples already loaded in to memory when you load a new set your not really restricred other than by the actual size of the samples themselves.
But when you first get a korg arranger your tempted to load every style and sound available for that just in case I might need it. Rather than work out a sensible file structure. Only to realised theres only so much space and then some more styles or sounds come along and no room to audition them.

[VladislavIZ]

why is KORG pleasing sound integration? Why is korg's Pa4X Sound not suitable for Pa700 and Pa1000?

[MusicLover400]

I was running out of memory when combining SETs. So I had to erase everything from RAM (samples) and start from scratch loading sounds related to the styles only. Now I have 220MB of free memory and about 7k samples out of 15048 (Max) for the next SET.
I totally agree that we have to better manage what the keyboard comes with but we were not given the right tools
To do so. Pa manager cost another $200 plus internet connection issues.
I had to put all my styles, sounds, PADs, DrumKits in a excel sheets and print it so if I could have styles share the same samples and sounds. I don’t have problem with western music because I can use factory styles and sounds, but I have Indian styles that comes with their unique custom sounds. I have one Indian style that needs 12 sound slots, I have room for samples and drumkits and multisamples but not for sounds. What do I do buy another keyboard for Indian music?
Adding sound slots is not a big deal, why can’t we have 16 user sound banks instead of 4 ?

[NativeAngels]

So following on from this now we are aware we should manage the content on our Korg Arrangers better. Besides the Bonusware collection which is great do you find the is not great deal of other resources. It would be great if members were to share there keyboard sets and edited factory sounds.

[MusicLover400]

I can share my MS Excel files, it took me a couple of hours to make them.You can have
Two user banks per page(8.5”X11” hard copy), each with 6 pages and 8 slots/page.
Let me post a picture….
How do you post a picture ? couldn’t attach it from my PC.


Regards,
Al