finally sold Kronos, giving up

[gminorcoles]

Owning the Kronos was a struggle to get the most out of the instrument. If I was some genius player with a roadie I would make him setup the Kronos. As it stands, I hated navigating and trying to learn how to use it, trying to read the screen, all the insane non-ergonomic complexity.

I hate Karma, it is a crime, and like the Kronos, its capability tends to cause us to forgive at least for a while, how unbelievably un-ergonomic it is, and how needlessly byzantine and complex.

All the different engines in one synth? the dream! the reality, I struggle to make patches that are any good, I always make better sounds on my junior, less expensive and less complex synths. Not because the Kronos is not "better." In terms of what it can do, I havent owned a better keyboard. But the pay off for the Kronos for me has really only been as a controller, and to play really nice presets.

The sequencer is so hard to use compared to anything else, there are a long long list of things that are more productive. among them

legacy, but still worth it, all things considered:
mc909
mpc4000
korg triton

FL Studio
Cubase
Any daw

I am really sad to lose the Kronos, but I bought it new and it was really expensive. Even though I used it every day, it was only as a controller and for some sounds.

I will probably buy an Opsix, it is cheap and represents that only part of the Kronos that I cannot really replicate elsewhere. Other synths have FM but the efrrot to expression ratio of the opsix is huge compared to many of them. While the opsix cannot take samples as input, I think only the PC4 from Kurzweil can do that besides the Kronos and its 1800 dollars. I might buy a PC4 for other reasons but its really just as complex as the Kronos if you want to go beyond presets + controller.

So I failed to maximize the value of this great machine, but it's not just my fault.

[Falcon2e]

If you’ve already sold it, making any friendly suggestions at this point would be moot. Sorry it didn’t work out for you. Bye

[tunaman]

No offense meant, but you feel that it isn’t ‘just your fault’ yet thousands of owners are using them in myriad ways to achieve their desired results, so the capabilities are certainly there and the onus is on the owner to delve in and learn how to leverage those capabilities.

Hopefully you can find the solution which works for you.

[gminorcoles]

No offense meant, but you feel that it isn’t ‘just your fault’ yet thousands of owners are using them in myriad ways to achieve their desired results, so the capabilities are certainly there and the onus is on the owner to delve in and learn how to leverage those capabilities.

Hopefully you can find the solution which works for you.

yes the word Onus, or burden, is an apt choice

[Sweat]

I must say that I admire your realization, and you are not afraid to admit that the Kronos is not for you. With all of the power it has, it is complex. It is certainly not for everyone, and this is why there are so many other wonderful instruments available.

Even if you can afford it, why have a Ferrari if a Mustang provides exactly what you want? Why own the Taj Mahal if your suburban home gives you the most comfort? Why vacation in Paris when a nearby resort is more exciting for you? My local grocery store sells the most fancy coffees from around the world, but I still prefer the taste of Folgers.

Kronos is exactly what so many of us are looking for in a workstation keyboard, but it is good to know when it is not for you. Find the instrument(s) that give you the most joy and satisfaction.

[gminorcoles]

I must say that I admire your realization, and you are not afraid to admit that the Kronos is not for you. With all of the power it has, it is complex. It is certainly not for everyone, and this is why there are so many other wonderful instruments available.

Even if you can afford it, why have a Ferrari if a Mustang provides exactly what you want? Why own the Taj Mahal if your suburban home gives you the most comfort? Why vacation in Paris when a nearby resort is more exciting for you? My local grocery store sells the most fancy coffees from around the world, but I still prefer the taste of Folgers.

Kronos is exactly what so many of us are looking for in a workstation keyboard, but it is good to know when it is not for you. Find the instrument(s) that give you the most joy and satisfaction.

Thank you for allowing me to make an inferior choice. I was not expecting such grace and generosity, merely venting my sadness at taking this decision.

[GregC]

Its difficult to size up if a complex keyboard is going to fit your requirements.

I also don't believe its useful to 100% follow when it appears that the board is super popular. IOW, I don't go by popularity. Initial enthusiasm might be driven
by early adopter buyers.

My thought is that it might be worth a try to get a 60 day return/refund from your retailer. 30 days is not enough given the complexity of many keyboards.

Then the next step is to have a keyboard coach lined up for 1/1 assistance in learning the complex keyboard.

However, when it doesn't work out, its best to move on sooner than later.

[gminorcoles]

Its difficult to size up if a complex keyboard is going to fit your requirements.

I also don't believe its useful to 100% follow when it appears that the board is super popular. IOW, I don't go by popularity. Initial enthusiasm might be driven
by early adopter buyers.

My thought is that it might be worth a try to get a 60 day return/refund from your retailer. 30 days is not enough given the complexity of many keyboards.

Then the next step is to have a keyboard coach lined up for 1/1 assistance in learning the complex keyboard.

However, when it doesn't work out, its best to move on sooner than later.

30 days? 2 years

[Mike Conway]

The sequencer is so hard to use compared to anything else, there are a long long list of things that are more productive. among them

legacy, but still worth it, all things considered:
mc909
mpc4000
korg triton

Not questioning your decision to sell, but the Triton was my bridge to Kronos. After owning a couple of Tritons, I was able to record a multi song project the first month of having an OASYS. The Triton workflow is quite similar, especially the sequencer. The main difference was having more FX and the HD recorder (which I didn't use at first). Also, the addition of sysex, for recording fader/knob movements was huge. No more having to insert a Compressor, just to make volume changes.

That said, the OASYS has a much bigger screen, so I'm glad that I learned on that. When the Kronos came out, I thought about how difficult it would be, for someone starting with that, learning on a tiny, non-tiltable screen. It is most certainly a challenging instrument to get a handle on. This forum is vital for getting answers on this beast.

There are a lot of people who don't deep dive on a Kronos. Korg realized that, which is why they simplified the Nautilus interface. Nautilus would be harder for someone like me, who likes to access all the knob/slider functions, but it makes sense for 90% of people who don't.

Anyway, I'm sorry to see you go. Yes, I realize that you've been here for years. Also, I've seen a lot of you on gearslutz, er gearspace. I'm "Scoopicman" over there. Take care, man.

[gminorcoles]

The sequencer is so hard to use compared to anything else, there are a long long list of things that are more productive. among them

legacy, but still worth it, all things considered:
mc909
mpc4000
korg triton

Not questioning your decision to sell, but the Triton was my bridge to Kronos. After owning a couple of Tritons, I was able to record a multi song project the first month of having an OASYS. The Triton workflow is quite similar, especially the sequencer. The main difference was having more FX and the HD recorder (which I didn't use at first). Also, the addition of sysex, for recording fader/knob movements was huge. No more having to insert a Compressor, just to make volume changes.

That said, the OASYS has a much bigger screen, so I'm glad that I learned on that. When the Kronos came out, I thought about how difficult it would be, for someone starting with that, learning on a tiny, non-tiltable screen. It is most certainly a challenging instrument to get a handle on. This forum is vital for getting answers on this beast.

There are a lot of people who don't deep dive on a Kronos. Korg realized that, which is why they simplified the Nautilus interface. Nautilus would be harder for someone like me, who likes to access all the knob/slider functions, but it makes sense for 90% of people who don't.

Anyway, I'm sorry to see you go. Yes, I realize that you've been here for years. Also, I've seen a lot of you on gearslutz, er gearspace. I'm "Scoopicman" over there. Take care, man.

Well kronos are getting a bit cheaper. I have repurchase d a lot of stuff and been successful the second time around. I am sure that will happen with the Kronos. Although I am a bit alarmed that people are reporting the Kronos going out of production.

[Track 7]

Have you considered a Nautilus? It looks somewhat simpler with a redesigned GUI -- and no Karma!

Sorry the Kronos didn't work out for you. Kudos for hanging in there with it for two years. That's a long time and more than a fair trial. Your feelings about it are exactly mine about software and virtual instruments -- endless frustration. For me, the Kronos just works. Not perfect but close enough. Sweat's analogies above about cars, houses, coffee, etc., are good. Different flavors for different tastes.

[pete.m]

Sorry to read that you've given up on the Kronos. I've always found it very logical and well laid-out, and also full of enough features and potential to have kept me interested on a daily basis for the past ten years. Like Mike Conway said, though, I also had the advantage of trading up from a Triton (and a Trinity before that).

One thing I would add is that I've bought and then subsequently given up on a number of pieces of gear down the years. The reasons have been many - poorly designed interface or workflow that makes it a pain to use, awful manuals that keep you away from the potential of what might be a very powerful instrument, and also that certain something you can't put your finger on that means that it's just not you. It's not that I don't put in the effort. Sometimes, it just happens, and that's that, the same as any friendship or relationship. Maybe you'll get back to it later on - who knows? All the best.

[Hector Space]

As someone who’s been round the block a few times I’d say that I agree with your point about the Kronos’s interface. I’ve spent many frustrated hours trying to make an HD1 do what I want.. which page is the LFO added or how do I get the filter cutoff to move with after touch. Etc etc and then there was midi and Karma... lol
But this is a common problem. My Kurzweil Forte was no better once you needed to go under the hood and use VAST..
Most of these instruments cost £1000’s and then many £1000’s more in man hours just trying to get them to do what you want.
Because instrument makers don’t have to worry about the man hours we put in. Most instruments do not really cater for easy deep diving. Just like road maintenance people don’t have to pay for the 100000’s of wasted man hours sitting in traffic jams caused by the road works.

Is the grass greener on the other side of the synth divide??
I’ve recent purchased a Novation Summit.. It has a lovely knobby interface and fairly shallow menu diving. So it sounds great, but is it really any quicker building quality patches than the Kronos? I don’t think so. I think the truth is once you reach a certain level of complexity the interface is only a part of the real learning curve.

So now I’m going to open up my Kronos flight case and revisit with some fresh eyes and ears.

I suppose beyond the meat and two veg of cover band and session work really what matters is if you’re having fun!

[Track 7]

Great points . . .

. . . and also that certain something you can't put your finger on that means that it's just not you.

I almost bought a Montage recently, but for this reason I could not quite commit. I can see and hear that it's a great instrument, just not for me right now. Maybe another time.

My Kurzweil Forte was no better once you needed to go under the hood and use VAST. . . .

Is the grass greener on the other side of the synth divide?? . . .

I suppose beyond the meat and two veg of cover band and session work really what matters is if you're having fun!

Right, and for this reason I bought a Kurzweil instead. Not sure its grass will be greener, but I hope it will be a worthy complement to the Kronos. Sometimes another field to play in is enough. Then go back to the other field. Or mix them.

[Peas&Carrots]

I recently parted company with my Kronos. It was the end of an era but I came to realise I just didn't have the time or the inclination.

Kronos is brilliant but also difficult and the cause of much frustration, I have to say my mental state is much better these days...

Having said that, we parted on the understanding that there isn't anything better out there at this time. Luckily I have other life priorities at the moment. Maybe in the future I will try again.