Kronos X and ASM Hydrasynth (keyboard ver.)

[Pedja]

I’m brand new in the world of synthesizers, of the kind like Hydrasynth.
I would find very valuable suggestions on the subject, from forum members, who have Kronos and Hydrasynth. Especially on the topic of modulation of Kronos (x73) sounds, using Hydrasynth (keyboard ver.). But also other topic, too. Thanks in advance.

[trancedelicbluesman]

It is widely accepted practice to have two boards, one weighted and one non weighted. As a complement to Kronos, Hydrasynth has in its favor an incredible sounding synth engine with many options and polyphonic aftertouch--very rare!

I have thought about getting one myself.

Not in its favor: it is monotimbral, only has 8 voices, and only has a 4 octave keyboard. But maybe AMS will come out with an expanded version...

[Pedja]

Thanks trancedelicbluesman for replay.
A few days ago, ASM announced two new models, the Explorer (three octaves, it also runs on batteries), and what is more interesting for you, Deluxe model, 73 keys with 16 voice polyphony. These are practically two ASM 8 voices machines, in one case. You can watch presentations of both models on YouTube. It will be available in the mid-November 2021.

[Pedja]

Very strange that no one has a similar combination, Kronos and Hydrasynth?

[DeltaJockey]

Very strange that no one has a similar combination, Kronos and Hydrasynth?

I do Pedja,
but I have to confess I haven't done a lot with it. I have though, midi'd them together, and if I remember it was pretty straight forward like any synths.
Not that I push the midi implementation very far Smile

Trouble is I've been busy playing with other stuff!

One day 'll try out the ribbon controller to modulate the Kronos.
As far as the poly AT goes, the Kronos just responds to it once connected, so nothing extra to do there.

[Pedja]

Thank you very much DeltaJockey for reply, and information that is very important to me. Especially the respond of Kronos to Hydrasynth poly AT, after connection. I guess it's a Hydrasynth MIDI OUT and Kronos MIDI IN connection.
I hope, you have a little more time, to experiment, in the near future. Any experience would be very valuable to me.
I wish you all the best.

[trancedelicbluesman]

Thanks trancedelicbluesman for replay.
A few days ago, ASM announced two new models, the Explorer (three octaves, it also runs on batteries), and what is more interesting for you, Deluxe model, 73 keys with 16 voice polyphony. These are practically two ASM 8 voices machines, in one case. You can watch presentations of both models on YouTube. It will be available in the mid-November 2021.

Thank you for bringing that to my attention.

[Pedja]

You are welcome.

[Pedja]

DeltaJockey I finally connected Hydrasynth and Kronos (MIDI OUT-Hydrasynth and MIDI In-Kronos). However, in addition to Hydrasynth’s reaction to the poly after touch, I noticed a certain change of Kronos ’sounds, as well as Hydrasynth’s sounds. Ribbon on Hydrasynth does not affect Kronos sounds, I guess certain adjustments are needed on Kronos? The sounds of the Kronos are somehow sharper and weaker (requiring stronger pressing of the keys), while the sounds of the Hydrasynth are considerably weaker than that obtained without connection. It is possible to overlap both instruments, but it is also lost in the intensity, color and volume of individual sounds. Suggestions related to this experience of mine would be very welcome. Thanks in advance.

[KK]

The sounds of the Kronos are somehow sharper and weaker (requiring stronger pressing of the keys), while the sounds of the Hydrasynth are considerably weaker than that obtained without connection.

About adjusting external MIDI velocity and aftertouch (AT) control, in your Kronos go to the Global mode MIDI tab and select postMIDI for what Korg calls Convert Position. Then back to the Global Basic tab select different AT curves to affect external MIDI control data coming from your other synth.

The default preMIDI setting is to instead take advantage of the different velocity and AT curves while playing at the Kronos keyboard, with the external MIDI data going through the default "medium" curves. So in short, the postMIDI setting reverses this process with the velocity and AT "medium" curves set for the Kronos keyboard and allowing more precise control for incoming external MIDI stuff. From what you mention you experience using your HydraSynth, choosing a higher numbered AT curve (5, 6 or 7) should solve your problem. Do not use AT curve # 8, as it sends random numbers - it is only useful when you want to create weird effects.

[Pedja]

KK thank you very much for suggestions. I really greatly appreciate it.

[John Hendry]

I was just posting on this somewhere else... but here.
.[/quote]

Thank you for this summary. I now understand why it is considered a premium expense for manufacturers to add PolyAT to their design and production costs.

The older CS 80 ( Yamaha ) and the Roland A80 did have it on their keybeds. There are a number today who do offer it but none it seems in a fully weighted 88 note version.. Hydrasynth has it in their 49 note board.[/quote]

I'm a big fan of Poly AT. Always wanted to have the keys respond like a finger on a string. Back in the day I was an Elka, Fatar, and Roland dealer building IBM 286's on up running early midi software and had several Roland A80's with and without the resistor upgrade, as well as the Elka MK series which was the best midi controller with poly-AT I was able to test and try out. Still have an MK76 with original steel contacts and when Elka went to lower cost rubber contacts Elka soon went out of business and Fatar's great "stab" hammer action keyboard only had Channel AT.

My view on Ch AT is it's good for some things, but falls way short of Poly-AT done right with the ability to play notes soft enough. Never liked CH AT performance on most keyboards with it and felt limited expression was the norm.

My view on Poly AT for both hands on playing is you need to be able to emulate a string under each finger... without breaking your fingers, more like a real violin and that alone forces me to want it as much as any other part of the keyboard by opening up so much added tonal space for basic expression. But it's been "dream on" since Elka went out of business stopping better key designs showing how old MIDI is. There was the short lived VAX77 at $4,000 in very limited numbers. I believe that's what Stevie Wonder uses setup by the inventor himself.

Which brings up the next issue connected to Poly AT which is MIDI's lower resolution 128 CCs which the now discontinued Kronos uses for single Chanel AT compared to the ASM 77 key Hydrosynth Deluxe responding to high resolution NRPNs for Poly AT with release velocity. NRPNs don't support the MIDI spec so step recording and being a great 73 key MIDI Controller with Poly AT for old midi gear will not be one of the the ASM Hydrasynth's main features, but I've come to grips with that now as a good thing because NRPNs higher resolution is so much better.

ASM's Hydrasynth Deluxe with "Polytouch" sensitivity is what I hoped for (in a synth action) and beyond what I expected. Have not yet connected it to the Kronos yet due to moving but expect there will be a big hit in performance and CCs ignored.

The Kronos has been discontinued and I really hope the next KORG flagship workstation will step past MIDI too and use NRPNs to provide high resolution key response with Poly AT and Release Velocity now that ASM let the cat out of the bag. Amazing machine...

[Pedja]

Thank you very much John,
For the detailed information.
I didn't even know Hydrasynth was NRPN compatible. I didn't even know what NRPN was, so now I saw the meaning of that standard on Wikipedia.
Can you tell me how this could be used with one of the Kontakt or Falcon software instruments. I would be very grateful for that.
I wish you all the best.

[KK]

...the Elka MK series...

That was the greatest time to find the best controllers. Along with the Elka and Roland you mentioned, I also remember the Cheetah master keyboard, the Kawai M8000 and possibly the most popular of all Yamaha KX88. In my case, I ended up buying a brand new Kurzweil MIDIboard, which still works just fine 30 years later. All my friends back then thought I just gone mad, telling me "You bought a $3500 keyboard that doesn't make any sound ?!?!".

Finally, another little word about poly AT. Mine can transmit SYSEX strings and poly AT simultaneously on eight MIDI channels and if you are not careful on the parameters you choose, you can quickly overload software and computers almost to a halt. This probably explains at least in part why keyboard manufacturers are not eager so much yet with the MIDI 2.0 spec.

[John Hendry]

This probably explains at least in part why keyboard manufacturers are not eager so much yet with the MIDI 2.0 spec.

Yes... when I got my Kronos, I was surprised to see stock multi sound voices using KARMA going in the red with just one key in use... so adding Poly AT really adds a lot more demand to the system. To replace the Kronos with Poly AT and release velocity a new workstation will need a real CPU and MB with memory to match which means more heat, so it won't be as easy as building a desktop tower with water cooling to keep it cool... and quiet.

I suspect KORG realizes it's time to implement Poly AT with release velocity or see new manufactures pass them by, so hope a high-resolution standard is brought forward for compatibility with other manufactures. This change bringing back tech from the 80's is long overdue IMO, but as a result of waiting with today's advancement in technology 4-5K in US dollars can build some serious hardware creating a market for the future software needed looking ahead.

Really excited to see what KARMA becomes with more horsepower added to set it free.