mp3, midi or kar files --- which are better quality?

[mikey224]

Hi everyone,
Just a question about which is better sound quality for the Korg 4X --- mp3, midi or kar files --- or does it really matter?

Thanks
Mike

[karmathanever]

Just a question about which is better sound quality for the Korg 4X --- mp3, midi or kar files --- or does it really matter?

Hey Mike

Firstly, MIDI and KAR (which is basically MIDI with lyrics) uses your PA4X sounds.
The quality varies massively depending on who/where/how they were created. These are purely digital files (no sounds) that rely on being played connected to a sound source like a keyboard/module etc...
To get nice high quality authentic MIDIs you generally have to pay for them. These are editable - edit notes and other fine details etc...etc...

MP3s are totally different in that they are audio recordings and hence do not use your PA4X sounds at all - your PA4X is simply an MP3 player.
These are very hard to edit.
So MP3s are the same as WAV files however MP3s are compressed WAV files to save file space. Any compression will reduce the audio quality to some extent.
MP3s compressed at a bitrate of 320 kbps at 16 bit is going to sound just about the best for an MP3.
I wish my PA4X would play WAVs but that is not supported - only MP3s unfortunately.

If you are looking for backing tracks there are many websites with MP3s and MIDIs - it's a matter of what you want. If you want tracks with recorded backing vocals, then MP3 may be your best choice.
If you are wanting to mess around with keys (as in pitch) then MIDIs are kinder - you can change the key on an MP3 but this can further reduce the quality (sometimes badly).

Hope this helps

Pete

[mikey224]

Thanks Pete, I'm glad to know the difference now. This was really informative.
Mike

[Korghelper]

The real standout for most audio backing tracks is, they tend to use real guitarists. This quite honestly pushes them into FAR more realistic territory. Drums, not so much. Few audio tracks go to the trouble of hiring good drummers (a few do though). Audio backing tracks will also have audio background vocals, which can give you that ‘call and response’ backing vocals, which harmony generators never can.

But of course, audio tracks are going to go for that ‘as close to the record as possible) sound, which if you are looking to be a bit different can be difficult to pull off. A MIDI file or a style, it’s easy to change the drums to brushes, the electric bass to an upright, the rock guitars to a jazz guitar etc., which even if you don’t change a note, can turn a hard rockin’ track into something a bit jazzier and better for a dining crowd, for instance.

Each have their strengths and weaknesses. Styles are 100% under your control. You can change the style, chords, structure, anything you want, but will rarely get you close to the record. SMF’s will get you closer, with the advantage that you CAN completely revoice them if you want. And yes, you can transpose them quite a lot before they need editing for line. Mind you, if you get you audio tracks from companies that have them in multitrack format, you can set them to only transpose the pitched tracks and leave the drums and percussion alone, which makes a huge difference. Much more than three semitones down starts to get ugly, although there are a couple of tricks you can do to help them out, and three or four up is generally doable. But more than this can be a problem.

SMF’s have an additional advantage if you don’t use a laptop or tablet to play your audio tracks. You can place Markers at structure boundaries like verse, chorus, solo etc., and freely jump around if you feel like doing an extra solo, or going back to an earlier verse if the dancers get up late or anything you want. You CAN do this with audio backing, but only with a laptop or tablet at the moment, you can’t use Markers in audio backing within the Korg….

Bottom line, do you want to improvise a lot, or do you want to sound just like the record? Each system does one thing best.

[mikey224]

Thanks so much for your response, Korg Helper --- excellent information.

Mike

[the_boss81]

But when you uses mp3 backingtracks from different sources, not only from professional studios, the quality can be very different.
Some saled mp3 from not professionals or semi-professionals sounds worse as good made SMFs on good Keys, without dynamics and space.
And you can't just mute a track and play it with e.g. live saxophone or guitar...

[Robydur]

hi !!, when I can buy high quality midi files jazz styles, orchestrations..etc thanks!

[karmathanever]

https://www.midi.com.au/genres/jazz-midi/
http://midkar.com/jazz/jazz_01.html
https://www.midi.com.au/genres/jazz-midi/

....and Google is your friend......

[Korghelper]

But when you uses mp3 backingtracks from different sources, not only from professional studios, the quality can be very different.
Some saled mp3 from not professionals or semi-professionals sounds worse as good made SMFs on good Keys, without dynamics and space.
And you can't just mute a track and play it with e.g. live saxophone or guitar...

Actually, the better audio track sites now offer their backing tracks in multitrack format, so it’s easy to mute the solos and parts you want to play, and even restructure it (add extra solos, cut out sections etc) in a DAW.

Then there are programs that allow you to embed the lyrics into the MP3…

Yes, quality can vary, but then again, quality of SMF’s and third party styles can vary as wildly, and to be honest, only a tiny handful don’t really NEED extensive work to be acceptable. One word of caution, though…

As soon as you start using high quality audio backing tracks, the less well programmed SMF’s and styles you use are going to stick out like a sore thumb..! If you wish to continue using them and not go entirely audio, be prepared to spend a fair bit of time massaging them to be closer to your audio tracks. It’s amazing how we may overlook less than stellar midi files until we have something REALLY good to compare them to…

If you’re looking for a site with a massive collection of mostly high quality multitrack backing tracks, I’d recommend https://www.karaoke-version.com/custombackingtrack/ as a good starting place. $2.99 a track…

[the_boss81]

backing tracks in multitrack format

OK, I'm with you there, although at least at the moment there will be rather few titles in such versions... presumably you can also choose the pitch (transpose) when ordering...

quality of SMF’s and third party styles can vary as wildly

yes, but there are already many providers with SMF on specific keyboard models - that can save a lot of work.

As soon as you start using high quality audio backing tracks...

After a few years with SMF, I switched to Mp3... but for a few years now I've been back with SMF. When we come across really professional audio files from time to time, I still like to use them, but when they are not "pro" I much prefer to use SMF. I hope that with a new Korg flagship the dance drums will really be as powerful as with DAW... The site you suggest seems great to me.... but only a few pieces for our, i.e. mainly Polish music genres...

Best regards

[Korghelper]

Yes, sorry… you didn’t specify Polish music. That site concentrates mostly on Western pop music.

And yes, you can find a few SMF’s done to a high professional level. But in fairness, the VAST majority of SMF’s tend to be optimized for older Roland gear. Getting up to speed on quickly changing the PC/00/32 codes and minor drum kit editing really pays off here. After all, there are VERY few sites that sell SMF’s optimized for the PA4X. You’re going to have to do some work no matter what.

For me, the deciding factor are the guitars. Night and day to most commercial SMF’s. I have yet to hear any SMF’s that nail real guitars and they are the backbone of pop music

If you go the multitrack audio option, personally, I’d do the transposition yourself. This gives you the option of transposing the entire pitched sub-mix in one go, or use different pitch transpose algorithms on different tracks depending on type. Backing vocals, for instance, do better transposed with something that moves the formants around as well. And bass can sometimes benefit from a cut and paste job if the track gets it transposed down below the natural range of a bass. Try transposing the track down, AND up to the octave higher, and you can comp the two parts together to give a bassline that is lower but not TOO low!

[the_boss81]

Everything you write fits... For me, I've already experimented back and forth enough. Mike has to decide for himself There's still the question of whether a Pa4X makes sense as a pure audio player...?

[Biggles]

If you use MIDI files you could also use the MIDI TO STYLE bot for it to create a user Style based on the MIDI file.

You may have to fine tune some of those converted but those I have imported have worked very well.

[Korghelper]

If you use MIDI files you could also use the MIDI TO STYLE bot for it to create a user Style based on the MIDI file.

You may have to fine tune some of those converted but those I have imported have worked very well.

I wonder sometimes about the benefit of converting an SMF to a style if you’re going to use it for the song the original is in. For starters, you lose the ability to play two handed (use the bender a lot, or play like a regular two handed keyboard player!) and you are now stuck having to input the chords, which the SMF already had….

I realize that with a style, you now have total control over structure, but surely Markers achieve pretty much the same thing without losing a whole hand to inputting the chords?

I have a feeling few people have really investigated using Markers in SMF’s… it is a totally different way to use SMF’s. My biggest wish for the next TOTL Korg is the ability to use Markers in audio tracks…