piano roll sequence editing Kronos

[blazerunner]

I’m curious to hear your thoughts on what features the MPC has for working with audio tracks that the Kronos lacks?

I had an MPC for around a year and really wanted to love it. I thought it would far surpass the capabilities of the Kronos for sampling and sequencing, and as a workstation overall, but was quite disappointed overall.


On the MPC audio tracks are really nothing more than long samples. They can’t span multiple sequences (so you can’t, for example, record a single vocal take if your song has tempo changes). Many people haven’t bothered using them because they don’t offer anything more than the sampler does on the MPC line. Taking the same approach with the Kronos, you could use in-track sampling and have a similar experience to the MPC - with the added advantage that the Kronos can at least stream samples from the SSD…

What was the one year that you owned an MPC? There have been many updates to it that changes the landscape of the device every time.

I respect your personal opinion of disliking the MPC but technically I'm not sure how you can compare capabilities of an expandable standalone with a DAW to the Kronos with it's limitations which is like night and day.

Audio tracks are just long samples "sounds like something I saw in a google search once".

How would you know what "many people" are doing? who are these many people? Are you walking into peoples houses and taking surveys of how they use their MPC's? I'm just saying. I dislike when people say things like "many people" when the truth is no one knows what another person is doing with their gear. You might see a few complaints but a few complaints doesn't mean the thousands of MPC owners feel the same way or even run into the same problem.

I don't know what you mean by tempo changes and one takes.
I would imagine if your singing into a song you would know how the song flows.

I would also imagine that like any recording studio you'd be recording in verses not running through a whole song. I mean there should be choruses, pre - post chorus, break downs... bridges etc.

It can all be done but you need to use the device the way it was designed to be used. Same with the Kronos. Try tempo changing and audio track.
it's not a design flaw it's just the rules of the device.

As far as the "new technology" the MPC's are up to dates with modern studio features, engines, effects, and features. It would be better to just go to Akai and look at the features and updates and compare them to the Kronos.

The interfaces and effects on the MPC's are superior to the ones found in the Kronos and also streamlined better. That's not an opinion that's a fact of reality. 2022 vs. 2010. In a decade things change over time.

[SeedyLee]

There are infinitely better thing I could be doing right now than arguing with strangers on the internet, but here we are. I fin your argument curious in that you seem to believe that people should rely on their own experiences rather than information returned from Google, yet seem to dismiss people's own experiences as being incorrect whilst asking them to consider your perspective. Let me ask you: if I found your posts via Google, am I supposed to give them any merit or not? I'm confused on that point.

How would you know what "many people" are doing? who are these many people? Are you walking into peoples houses and taking surveys of how they use their MPC's? I'm just saying. I dislike when people say things like "many people" when the truth is no one knows what another person is doing with their gear. You might see a few complaints but a few complaints doesn't mean the thousands of MPC owners feel the same way or even run into the same problem.

I am drawing from the many posts on the matter that adorn the internet, including yours. I am not suggesting any form of statistical rigour, nor trying to make inferences around population proportions. The term "many people" is deliberately vague and non-specific.

Anyway, I think if you re-read the few posts I made on the point you will not find any post that says the MPC is rubbish or crap or superior or whatever. The first time I saw the MPC X in stores around 2017 I thought it was innovative and a well-designed piece of kit, however it was missing many features at the time. I watched with great interest its evolution over the next few years until I decided that it was sufficiently mature in 2020 to purchase one.

Why would I want an MPC if I think the Kronos is the best thing since sliced bread? Because I am pragmatic and realise that the Kronos has many shortcomings - just like every product - particularly in the sequencer department. Seriously, I could write a book on the shortcomings of the Kronos and things I would like improved. Why you would think that I am blin to the shortcomings of the Kronos is beyond me (oh, that's right - you can't trust things you read on the internet and you haven't been to my house to check).

I had the MPC for around 14 months and liked many things about it. I recevied two major updates for it in that time - the only update I haven't run on it is the latest. Keep in mind that this is on the back of a prior 3-4 years of updates, so by this stage it should be a mature product.

I wasn't a fan of it linear song workflow (being able to chain sequences together to create a single song was very idiosyncratic, such as requiring the track order to be maintained between all sequences in a song if converting back to a sequence, which was required for many other things). I wasn't a fan of the integration of clip mode (clips couldn't span sequences). I wasn't a huge fans of the effects nor the new plug in instruments. I wasn't a fan of the way automation was handled for pad mutes vs track mutes (one is an automation event, one is treated as a midi event, which led to some inconsistencies in approach).

I did very much like the pattern-based workflow and the sampler was quite fun. But for those things, the 15 year old MPC 1000 with JJOS also does a really nice job.

You keep talking about how the MPC contains a bunch of "new technology", and how the Kronos is based on ancient technology, but I don't see it. It's now a five year old product, versus around 11 years for the Kronos. So its perhaps around 5-6 newer. However you forget that, just as the Kronos was based on the OASYS, which was based on the UI of the Triton and the sound engine of the OASYS PCI going back a decade earlier, the MPC line too has been around 35 years. Many elements of the MPC's workflow are based on the same ~30 year old thinking. Many of the AIR supplied effects and instruments go back more than a decade - for example, the ARP Odyssy plugin is based on Wayoutware's original VST plugin which goes back to the early 2000s!

You make the point that the Kronos is "abandoned" because it hasn't received an update in some time, and that's true. The Kronos received updates for around six years after reelease. We will see if the MPC X is still reeiving updates in 2023 and beyond (or if Akai Professional becomes a zombie brand again - who owns it at the monebnt? I can't keep up).

Also, saying that the Force and the MPC run the same software, besides some programming changes, doesn't make any sense. Programming changes, by definition, make it different software. They may have a common base, but they are still different pieces of software. However, I believe (haven't verified as I haven't been into their houses) some people have had success loading the Force software onto the MPC series.

To summarise, no, I don't think the MPC line is rubbish. I don't think the Kronos is superior - the shortcomings of the Kronos were sufficient to drive me to buy and try an MPC. However I found that the MPC introduced as many shortcomings as it solved, and the things it did well (for me) my 15 year old MPC 1000 also did well - for my particular circumstances.

So, please, go and enjoy your MPC. They really are a great device. But they're not perfect and I have made my assessment of whether it works for me or not and have concluded it doesn't. Please respect that.[/quote]

[Davegraham193]

... that escalated fast.
I was originally asking if there was an inexpensive software I could connect direct to the Kronos and edit sequencer notes in piano roll view.
That's all.
Thank you for the response that said there wasn't and that I should export & import after edits were made in SONAR... which is what I'm going to do.
Peace out!

[voip]

All very interesting, nonetheless ;-)

.

[blazerunner]

There are infinitely better thing I could be doing right now than arguing with strangers on the internet

Lets get this right. First of all I don't reply to your comments. You followed me here replying to mine. I only came into this thread to answer OP's post about a feature of the Kronos and I talked about was the Kronos and the Kronos only. You're so bitter and bored with yourself that you took offense to me talking about a broken feature of the Kronos which is the audio editor that you barely do anything with as it is.

You completely derailed this guys thread because you wanted to respond to my comment that had NOTHING AT ALL to do with the AKAI MPC to make a snide remark at me about the AKAI MPC which no one brought up but you. We discussed the MPC in the MPC Keys thread. This a help/advice thread dude. Like what's your deal? That was completely unnecessary. You owe OP an apology. That's was ticks me more than anything.

YOU brought that up. YOU instigated it. If you don't want those problems then don't do things like that. You don't derail peoples threads to start arguments with so called strangers. You did that. I have never argued on here with anyone about anything. I just inform based on my personal experience with whatever the equipment is. If you're closed minded to other gear or get butt hurt when someone is more open minded or has more experience and access to equipment than don't take it personally just listen and hear them out you might learn something.

14 Months is not long enough to master an MPC. The MPC has equal the feature of the Kronos. It's complex. There are people who have recordings that they record actual artist in for multiple genre's based around the use of the MPC. https://youtu.be/x0GEHmTkwqQ This guy in this link right here said he made all of his albums and music using the MPC's and he doesn't make hip hop music. Yet people like you will pretend people this don't exists. Can't be they all have to use the Kronos only the Kronos can do this...only the Kronos can do that. The Kronos is flawed dude and Korg abandoned it rather than fixing it. Just how many hundred pages long is that Kronos wish thread now?

As far as the MPC It takes YEARS to master MPC the MPC and it's software. It's not just Stand alone anymore but it's a whole Daw. Just like the Kronos takes years. I've had my MPC's for years myself still new things about them and Akai regularly updates them giving you even more things to learn. I'm only pointing ou out on your inexperience because I'm aware of what these devices demand to fluently learn. I'm aware that you don't know what you're talking about because the things you're complaining about the MPC actually does.

I don't care about a google search you did when I have the equipment sitting in front of me that I've using to do exactly what you claim it can't. You're very misinformed about the product. I can accept being wrong about something that's how I learn. All I ever do is talk about my mistakes on this forum and ask for advice on them I'm very humble. Some of you guys here have ego's that need to be left at the log on screen.

Why are you trying to argue with me about an MPC in the first place. Clearly I have more experience with the product the product than you and the others When I'm only one speaking that has owned every version that they offer. What's so hard to understand about that? I'm not unique in that. Most MPC's owners own more than one MPC. It's because the software between the devices is identical. The Force just uses clips and scenes for launching sequences but aside from that it's features are identical to the MPC minus the lack of 2.0 software.

You want to call me out on what I think is so advanced about the MPC's and their technology...well I'll tell you...

Prime example: This guy in this thread just asked if the Kronos has a Piano Roll.

No it doesn't.

You know what does though? The MPC and the Akai Force.

Not only does it have a Piano Roll, it has a list edit view also like the Kronos, and it has Grid View. The sequencer cna edit better nad do more than the Kronos's sequencing editor. You have tools To move, Nudge, Transpose, Copy, Create, Erase, add in effects etc. And you can simply do this by selecting the not visually on the screen and just moving your finger.
The Kronos cannot do that.

That is what I'm talking about when I say the Kronos is outdated.That is a short example of what I'm referencing when I talk about how far behind on the times the Korg Kronos is.

You see that you get upset try to bash the MPC, try to convince me and everyone else that this 10yo dinosaur keyboard with it's 10yo non updated features is on par with equipment like the MPC... HOW? When it cannot even do those VERY basic things.

Our course I'm going to be annoyed when I hear people on here trying to sell that type of nonsense to passers by. People who don't know any better visit these forums and they read these comments and they hear these things from inexperienced users and they believe it because people like me who own and use the gear fluently don't respond to correct these things because they don't feel like as you claim "arguing with strangers on the internet".

I have no problem with your responses when they're in the correct place. But now you're following me around to unrelated posts to throw shade. Why? Like get a life dude. Nobody cares if you don't like the MPC. I don't care, The word doesn't care, Akai doesn't care, Korg doesn't care. You don't like the gear don't use it. Everything is not going to be fore you. Don't bash it though.

One person came to this forum and made a thread about the MPC Keys. And you just just jumped in to bash this piece of equipment that not a single one of you even owned or even toughed. Just whining about what you read on google. How pathetic is that? How can you honestly considered yourself a musician, a producer, an artists or anything when you're whining about a piece of equipment that exists to help you do your job? It was absolutely pathetic to see that.

I've realized in my years of making music there are only two types of people. People who are good at making and love making music love gear and they learning about gear and they enjoy trying new gear and having with it making the music that they love. They're opening minded. They run to new things to try and enjoy.

People that are so so at what they do, don't really enjoy making music that much or lost interests in it but continue to do it for whatever reason (maybe for their income), don't like trying new equipment because they feel it's a chore, don't' like spending time to learn things, they nit pick and complain about things no one cares about (like the buttons are too far apart or noisy or something),they whine about every new that comes out... you know those guys... those guys don't really like making music. I don't ever want to be one of those guys.

You have a piece of gear your good at and you're showing me up and making my stuff looks silly. I'm going to thumbs you man and befriend cause you're the guy I want to get to know. You're having fun I want to have fun too. I don't want to be a bitter dude with a Keyboard trying to convince myself that I enjoy what I'm doing when I don't.

That's how you end up in your situation. You're bashing gear that you barely knew how to use when you had it. 14 months of turning it on and off is absolutely nothing to the deep dive that is the MPC. It was 2 years of owning the Kronos before I actually got into seriously using it. It sat there collecting dust most of the time for those first two years. I was busy using one of the other 20 keyboards I owned to make music. That didn't make me an expert of the Kronos because I powered it on from time to time. It wasn't till I turned it on and kept it on and started using it every day that I learned its ins and outs. I put the work in to learn it. It was a headache for sure but I did it and I have with it.

I'm aware of its flaws and problems but I don't complain when I'm using it I work around it and get what I need done completed. As I said nothing I've created on the Kronos sounds like it was produced on a Workstation. That's a skill set I learned over hours and hours of seat time behind the Kronos. I smile when I'm making music with the Kronos but I also smile when I make it with my MPC because I'm enjoying myself.

There are areas of the Kronos I don't bother with because I can do the job more easily with other equipment. I don't need to use the Kronos's sampler when I have the Force and my MPC 2KXL to get it done quicker and more efficiently and recently I sold my SP404 and got the SP404MKii to one day sit down and learn when I take it out box for even more sampling fun. I'm open minded dude. I will never be stuck in a corner with a single keyboard like I was when I had my Triton and only my Triton as a keyboard to make music with for 14 years because I was acting stubborn like so many of you are on here with your 11 year old Kronosai.

Korg never knocked on my door and handed me any medals of honor for being so loyal to their brand.

Roland, Yamaha, and all of them never sent me a letter complaining that I wasn't buying their products.

You guys here on this forum didn't build me throne and carry me around on it as the King of Triton.

Nobody cared dude. The world went on. People got what they liked and had more fun making music than I was.

I learned my lesson the hardway. I finally went out and got new gear one day. I brought everything that's why I have so much stuff now. I'm happy to be outside my box. You can sit behind your Kronos trying to convince the world that it's still relevant but your on your own. The world has moved on to Daws,Midi Controllers and dual support devices like the MPC and Fantom. Maybe people on this forum care but the world doesn't care about the Kronos anymore. It's the past to them and it's even the past to Korg that's' why they discontinued it.

The King of Keyboards is dead and a lack of updates is what killed it.

[SeedyLee]

Cool.

You brought up on Page 1 how outdated the Kronos is because you’ve had trouble with audio tracks, which has nothing to do with the piano roll view. Then you insist that whatever issues people have had during their own experience with the MPC are a figment of their imagination and a consequence of their own stupidity and inexperience - and that your experience is absolute. Also, nothing on the internet is real, and also people’s personal experiences aren’t real.

That sounds like an interesting reality to exist in.