MIDI Loop?

WVought · Post by **WVought** » Sat Mar 04, 2023 6:35 pm

The following is all very specific, and I'm not at all sure anyone here will have the same setup as I do, but I'm hoping maybe someone can point me in the right direction.

I'm using a Korg Kronos, an iConnectivity mioXL (mio) MIDI interface, and MIDI Quest (MQ)12.2.1 on W11, and I'm trying to send SYSEX from the Kronos to MQ via a USB MIDI cable, with the mio as an intermediary. MQ has a specific procedure for this, which is used to sync the state of MQ with that of the Kronos.

But I cannot successfully transmit SYSEX data from Kronos to MQ, and I suspect I have a MIDI loop somewhere. When I attempt to transfer the SYSEX data, MQ indicates that some data is transferred, but it is incomplete...missing bytes, IIRC. This, I believe, indicates that my connections are correct, but that there is of course some sort of problem.

The mio has various activity LEDs, and they appear to be normal while the Kronos is powered down. Then, about 10 seconds before the Kronos is finished booting up, two of the LEDs will start flashing rapidly, and continue flashing until I power the Kronos down. The specific LEDs are the USB-MIDI LED, which indicates MIDI being received at a USB port on the mio, and the USB-DAW LED, which indicates data being sent from mio to the DAW . If I unplug the Kronos USB MIDI cable, the mio LEDs stop flashing. If I plug it back in, the LEDs resume flashing. So the MIDI activity occurs whenever the Kronos is on and the USB cable is plugged in, not just when I attempt a SYSEX transfer via MQ.

When the Kronos is off I can use MQ to interface with my other hardware synths, but when Kronos is on, none of my other hardware synths can be controlled (patch changes, for example) via MQ. I believe this is because a MIDI loop is clogging the system.

I have just a USB cable connecting the Kronos to the mio. There is no MIDI DIN cable attached to the Kronos. The Kronos is not directly connected to my computer.

On the mio, I have the MIDI ports configured so as to work around Windows' lack of multi-client USB drivers. So the Kronos USB MIDI cable connects to the mio, which sends data out to (and receives it in from) two MIDI ports. There's a "Kronos" port, which is used by my DAW (Cubase Pro 12) and disabled in MQ, and a "Kronos MQ" port which is used in MQ, and disabled in Cubase. If this setup were working properly, in Cubase I could (for example) have a MIDI track sending MIDI to the Kronos to play notes, and at the same time I could be auditioning (and editing) various patches on the Kronos in MQ's editor. This is a well-known MIDI port configuration that many Windows users are able to use without problem.

Is there some setting (aka parameter) on the Kronos that could be causing a MIDI loop? I've searched the Parameter Guide, and there are mentions of MIDI loops, but in a different context that doesn't seem to apply in this case.

I'm open to other suggestions or comments. Thank you.

WVought · Post by **WVought** » Sat Mar 04, 2023 9:22 pm

Edit: Apparently I was wrong when I wrote the following:

"When the Kronos is off I can use MQ to interface with my other hardware synths, but when Kronos is on, none of my other hardware synths can be controlled (patch changes, for example) via MQ. I believe this is because a MIDI loop is clogging the system."

I tried this again and I CAN use MQ to send patch changes to my other hardware synths, even when the Kronos is on.

I'm not quite so certain the culprit is a MIDI loop, but it's still the most likely cause, IMO.

KK · Post by KK » Sat Mar 04, 2023 10:37 pm

As a test, eliminate the MIDI interface and connect the Kronos directly to the PC. If all works normally, you have found the problem. The Kronos constantly transmits System Common and System Realtime messages (Timing Clock, etc.). Maybe your interface is allergic to that type of messages and causes the software to receive incomplete data for whatever reason.

WVought · Post by **WVought** » Sat Mar 04, 2023 11:28 pm

KK wrote:As a test, eliminate the MIDI interface and connect the Kronos directly to the PC. If all works normally, you have found the problem. The Kronos constantly transmits System Common and System Realtime messages (Timing Clock, etc.). Maybe your interface is allergic to that type of messages and causes the software to receive incomplete data for whatever reason.

The MQ manual actually recommends that, but I was reluctant to try it because I may then run into the dreaded Windows lack of multi-client driver crapola...an inability to have both Cubase and MQ talk to the Kronos.

But I'm going to try it anyway. Thanks for the suggestion.

CliveJ · Post by **CliveJ** » Sat Mar 04, 2023 11:39 pm

KK is right, it’s MIDI timecode. Just turn it off in the Kronos - if the activity light on your mio goes out you have your proof. No need to “trouble” windows.

WVought · Post by **WVought** » Sat Mar 11, 2023 10:26 pm

Returning to this thread:

1. If I turn off the Time Code on the Kronos, the activity lights do indeed stop their rapid flashing. But the problem remains. I still can't get uncorrupted, complete SysEx from the Kronos.

2. If I connect the Kronos USB cable directly to my computer, the computer cannot find a MIDI port that leads to/from the Kronos.

I'm going to give up on this for now and hope I have some flash of insight that will solve this, or maybe I'll find some info online.

Thanks.

KingKronos · Post by **KingKronos** » Sat Mar 11, 2023 11:45 pm

Have you tried using only DIN MIDI?

In the iConnectivity software, DIN MIDI is easy to see.
Say you hook Kronos to DIN MIDI 1 in and out.
Just make sure you then de-select DIN1 from DIN1.

That should prevent the MIDI loop you're suspecting.

ronnfigg · Post by **ronnfigg** » Sat Mar 18, 2023 10:16 pm

The Kronos is MIDI Class Compliant so a USB Type B (device) from the K to a USB Type A (host) on your computer is all that's needed. Kronos will also do USB audio so it can act as an interface.