Why is the Karma Module Run control grayed out?

timg11 · Post by **timg11** » Sun Apr 26, 2015 11:21 pm

I posted this tutorial on using the Karma switches for Timbre on/off control a few months ago.

I'm working on modifying a Combi to use the same technique. Rather than starting from an init combi as in my tutorial, I wanted to start with an existing Combi.

Everything is working, except the Run control for Module A on the Karma / GE Setup / Key Zones tab is active and grayed out so I can't deactivate it.
So the Timbre controlled by Module A is effected by Karma (arpeggiated, or whatever).

I can't find anything in the manuals on why Run would be grayed out.

My example starting with an Init Combi also has Run grayed out, but all 4 modules are grayed out in the inactive state.

Is there any way to un-gray Run and deactivate the module? Or do we always have to start with Init Combi?

When I get an answer, I'll update the tutorial.

StephenKay · Post by **StephenKay** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:24 am

Any time a KARMA parameter is grayed out, it generally means either:
- it is not available because of the setting of some other parameter, or
- it is assigned to a Switch or Slider in one of the Module Control Layers or Master Layer.

In most of the combis, Module Run for the four Modules (if all four are used) is assigned to the first four switches in the Master Layer, so that you can mute and unmute the KARMA Modules in the KARMA Scenes.

This is set on the KARMA > GE Perf RTP tab. Unassign Module Run, and it will not be grayed out or controlled by a switch any more.

timg11 · Post by **timg11** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 1:29 pm

StephenKay wrote: This is set on the KARMA > GE Perf RTP tab. Unassign Module Run, and it will not be grayed out or controlled by a switch any more.

Stephen, thanks for the reply. In my Combi there is no tab named "KARMA > GE Perf RTP". I have "KARMA > GE RTP Scenes" and "KARMA > Perf RTP"

The Perf RTP tab looks like this:

On the GE RTP Scenes tab, I have unassigned (set to ---) every parameter 1-32 under Master A-D and Module A-D. Under Scenes, I have unchecked all Link Scenes to Master, Enable RTC by Master, and all Drum Track Run settings. Also, there is no parameter for "Module Run" in the 32 parameters for the GE.

All Dynamic MIDI sources are also set to "Off" destination.
I also set all the destinations for the Karma Switches on the "Name / Note Map" tab (master and Modules A-D) to unused (000).

Still the Run controls on GE Setup tab remain grayed out.

timg11 · Post by **timg11** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:57 pm

I also tried initializing the Karma Module A, checking GE RTP control settings and scenes, and Perf RTP and Panel setting.

I also tried Copy From Program: Copying an Init Program (HD-1) to an unused Timbre, and checking "With Karma" and Module A.

In both cases, the Run control for Module A remains selected (On) and grayed out.

theshinenz · Post by **theshinenz** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 6:47 pm

What is your midi settings in the Kronos Global page set to? I found Karma does this for me somtimes, as I use the Kronos as a midi slave to my Kurzweil when I forget to turn my Kurzweil on the Kronos Karma then obviously doesnt work and is greyed out as it cannot get the midi clock.

May be wrong but just an idea.

timg11 · Post by **timg11** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:30 pm

theshinenz, that is a very good suggestion.

As a matter of fact, I do keep my Kronos MIDI clock set to "Auto USB" since I drive it as a slave from Sonar often. When there is no USB MIDI clock source it effectively goes back to Internal. It is nice to have Auto so I don't have to change it back and forth all the time.

But I changed it to Internal just in case.
Unfortunately, the Karma Module Run settings remain grayed out.

Note that Karma does run just fine on Auto. That's the problem - the notes I play on the Timbre assigned to Module A are getting turned into an arpeggio or something.

timg11 · Post by **timg11** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:13 pm

I inspected a number of Combis, and it appears that every Combi has the four Module Run checkboxes grayed out. It just happens that the one test Combi I created using my procedure for Timbre Switching has all four Runs unchecked in the grayed state, so it works properly.
[Edit - these factory combis with Run grayed are explained by the assignment of Run module to switches, and they will become ungrayed if the assignments are disabled]

So thinking something global is preventing access to Module Run, I tried setting MIDI Clock to Internal. I also unchecked the two Karma External Routing boxes and Enable MIDI Start Stop Out in Combi.

Still, all Module Run controls in Combis are grayed out.

I reviewed the Op Guide in "Performing with KARMA Performing with KARMA in Combination mode" and "Editing KARMA in Combination mode" and didn't see anything about graying out of module run there (other than this Note: "If “Run” is not shown in the display, “Run” has been assigned as a performance realtime performance. The KARMA SWITCHES etc. will control “RUN.” which corresponds to Stephen's suggestion.

I could just start over and create a new Combi, but I want to understand what's going on so I can document it in my tutorial.

timg11 · Post by **timg11** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 5:21 pm

OK - I finally figured it out. On the Karma > Perf RTP parameters, nothing can be assigned to a Switch, or it will gray out Module Run.
In my example, I had the Group Key Zone and Parameter Thru Inside Zone assigned to SW1 to SW4. Even those assignments will gray out Module Run.

Steven said "Unassign Module Run, and it will not be grayed out or controlled by a switch any more"

That seems to be true sometimes, but in some cases it should read "Unassign all parameter from any switch, and Run will not be grayed out or controlled by a switch any more"

Oddly, now that I have unselected Run on Module A, and re-assigned Group Key Zone and Parameter Thru Inside Zone to SW1 to SW4, the Runs boxes remain available.

timg11 · Post by **timg11** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 5:48 pm

It is even stranger. Trying to understand the root cause of the gray-out Run control, I restored the original combi from a PCG backup. A version before I started changing anything with Karma.

I repeated the procedure to set up the Karma Control for Timbre muting, and the Run control was not grayed out.

I did power off and re-start the Kronos earlier today in the middle of this. I hate to conclude the Run control gray-out was a random event solved by a reboot, but I don't have a better answer.

timg11 · Post by **timg11** » Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:14 am

The Karma Timbre Switching Tutorial has been updated to take into account my new discoveries.

emmanuel.segard · Post by **emmanuel.segard** » Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:14 pm

I spent hours each time I needed to un-gray this Run box. Now I think I got the complete procedure to un-gray it, actually a workaround to fix what seems to be a small bug :

Initial condition :
In a Combination,
KARMA / GE Setup/Key Zones, Module A Run box is grayed out,
however everything is unset in KARMA / Perf RTP (Group Off, ABCD boxes unchecked, nothing assigned)

Procedure :
1) In KARMA / Perf RTP, set the following :
Group:Mix, Parameter:Run, check box A, assign to a switch, eg SW1
2) Go back to KARMA / GE Setup/Key Zones : Module A Run box is grayed out (as expected this time)
3) Go back to KARMA / Perf RTP and unset everything :
Group:off, Parameter:----, uncheck box A, unassign SW1
4) Go back to KARMA / GE Setup/Key Zones : Module A Run box is not grayed out anymore : tadaaaaa

emmanuel.segard · Post by **emmanuel.segard** » Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:46 pm

Just wanted to say: thank you !!! This timbre switching technique associated to Perf RTP is extremely powerful and flexible

If I managed to map the KARMA CONTROLS sliders to the MIX VOLUMES, this would be just outstanding

Inslinven · Post by **Inslinven** » Tue Sep 24, 2024 7:29 am

emmanuel.segard wrote:I spent hours each time I needed to un-gray this Run box. Now I think I got the complete procedure to un-gray it, actually a workaround to fix what seems to be a small bug :

Initial condition :
In a Combination,
KARMA / GE Setup/Key Zones, Module A Run box is grayed out,
however everything is unset in KARMA / Perf RTP (Group Off, ABCD boxes unchecked, nothing assigned)

Procedure :
1) In KARMA / Perf RTP, set the following :
Group:Mix, Parameter:Run, check box A, assign to a switch, eg SW1
2) Go back to KARMA / GE Setup/Key Zones : Module A Run box is grayed out (as expected this time)
3) Go back to KARMA / Perf RTP and unset everything :
Group:off, Parameter:----, uncheck box A, unassign SW1
4) Go back to KARMA / GE Setup/Key Zones : Module A Run box is not grayed out anymore : tadaaaaa

Thank you so much Emmanuel ! I was going mad with the Karma arpeggio of module A always running even when I switched to other modules to change midi channel as this really handy technique enables us.