popmann wrote:Welcome to guerilla marketing in the net age.
Been employed by makers of both nice boutique recording gear and "me too" Chinese crap MICS.
I always prefer people are honest about who they are on forums...but, nothing being discussed here has any bearing on my liking or buying the string expander for my Kronos. I would love for the developers to give is a little insight on what they're trying to bring to the table...but, I maintain that whether it's new sessions or not is only relevant if they had no forethought in the original sessions to record well beyond what a current platform could utilize.
I look forward to its demo period. You've lost no potential business from me. Now, if your design ethos are wave data with names like "orchestra L"(ref screen shot earlier in the thread), it's not going to likely be what I need, but...
The argument regarding the legitimacy of their claims about the "new" recordings for the Kronos has long since died.
The discussion now relates to people from Karo setting up multiple user accounts in order to pretend to be someone they are not, and then deleting a large amount of their posts so that they can not be held accountable for their actions.
It is also regarding another Karo member lying in his post and then changing it quickly before the post can be read by many people.
Current gear: Korg Kronos 61, Voicelive 2, Shure SM58, Alesis M1 Active 520, Focusrite Scarlett 18i6
Sharp, i hope you know how much i appreciate you and your work here, since years. Call me stupid, but i'm sure at 99%, that kurt did not mean it.
I would sure as hell hope so as I did consider him a friend. I’ve just sent Oliver and Kurt an email in fact to try open up communications. This Peter guy can get lost. I’ve zero respect for a guy like that.
He must be between you and that guy he know for a long time, i'm sure you'll hear from him about this.
I hope I do because I have a lot of respect for Kurt and I’m very confused right now why he said what he did, knowing he was band out of order.
If it were my friend that got caught, I can think of a lot of better ways to try smooth things over. Getting caught spamming is not the end of the world once handled right.
It's must be hard to be fooled by someone you know since along time. If it happens that kurt "control" that peter, be sure i would be with you, please understand i always have been well with kurt and oliver and it's hard to imagine i've been fooled too, i just want to wait a little to see what will come out of this.
We will see. I’m certainly open to discussing everything with Oliver and Kurt, but I’m not going to even entertain the idea of talking with Peter. I’ve no time for small minded people like that who can do nothing only try find ways to blame others for their actions.
And i repeat, so it must be clear for everyone, that i'm only waiting for kurt answer, not for,peter's one who fooled everyone/quote]
Me too as Peter has zero credibility here with me.
And i want to add again that i'm not working for karo, so i earn or lose nothing on kronos bank sales.
I will verify that too. Correct me if I’m wrong, but your only involved with them as that they resell a bank of sounds for you?
I completely agree with Keego that much of this thread is absolute kindergarden level.
The only point to be taken serious in any way is the one which is causing trouble for Sharp:
It is absolutely unacceptable if someone who has been a close co-worker of Karo libraries, now supports a Karo case up to forms of advertising without giving any hint of his relations and his identity. Sharp has no choice than to react sharply (no pun intended) according to forum rules in such a case.
All other "big concerns" uttered in this thread apart from the completely normal question of the OP are questionable up to ridiculous IMHO. And finally anyone who is threatening with any form of sueing or playing around with any kind of hidden or open legal threats just makes a laughing stock of himself.
Kurt/Karo:
You only have two choices from my view: either show clear distance to what your former teammate has done here, ask him to stop this kind of hidden interest conflict immediately, because it hurts your business, and apologize for your own questionable first reaction (I saw your original post as well!).
Or unite with Peter Jung, duck away and face the consequences.
Everybody here would like to continue to respect you and all the work you put into your remarkable libraries. But clarification from your side is certainly not too much to ask from you now. So whatever you do: communicate with Sharp in a constructive way!
Cello:
I really try to understand your disappointemnt in a way. You have spent several hundred bucks for a Karo Oasys library, just to see it years later in updated and enhanced form as Kronos offer, taking advantage of the superior technical standards of the Kronos over the Oasys (SSD streaming, possibility of more velocity layers etc.), and still probably being offered for less than you paid.
But apart from this human understanding of disappointment I am sorry to say that I regard all your claims concerning the moral and legal status of the Karo Kronos libraries as unacceptable form of bashing up to badmouthing (instead of contacting Kurt directly BEFORE accusing him).
And frankly, I ask myself it that has to be regarded as weak reaction of one more continously ranting Oasys owner, who just doesn't get over the fact that the Kronos overall is the superior next generation workstation over the Oasys, and a completely legitimate one(!), from any perspective accepting the market rules Korg has to regard. My impression is that your disappointment casually has mislead you over the top, and from my view you really put a lot of completely unneccessary poison into this thread. I regard you essentially as quite a friendly character and don't think that this behaviour is helpful for anyone. If you wanted to put pressure to Kurt, this obviously worked, but in a way making things even worse.
I would appreciate if we could all come back to normal. The way it is now it is just plain silly: all loose and no one wins.
We want to enjoy the Kronos, with all the great soundstuff already available and still coming, and I for one will not surrender to anyone trying to spoil the party for nothing!
Last edited by jimknopf on Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Roland Jupiter Xm - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Roland TR-6s - Cubase 12 Pro + Groove Agent 5
michelkeijzers wrote:Today Peter Jung has requested a copy of PCG tools which I already sent earlier (today), before reading this.
My app will still be free for anybody. However, the source code will not be freely published from now because reading a thread like this makes me wondering if a company would use the source code of my app to sell or use in their own code.
However, if people are really interested in the code and will do something with it positively and free I'm willingly to pass it, but only under certain conditions.
Of course anybody interesting in the app I will gladly send it (including future updates) for free.
I might understand you, but i don't see the point for someone to steal someone else to create an app, free or not, while korg is about to launch its own free one.
Because Korg is making an editor, I'm not trying to recreate what Korg is making, they probably can do it a lot better than I can (they should, having a complete development team and I'm on my own).
But a librarian and list generators are not available freely (except my app) so someone could use my code or parts of it to incorporate in their own code.
And it's not that I don't want other developers to benefit from, but I wouldn't like to see that others will ask money for something they didn't create themselves.
And i want to add again that i'm not working for karo, so i earn or lose nothing on kronos bank sales.
I will verify that too. Correct me if I’m wrong, but your only involved with them as that they resell a bank of sounds for you?
Regards
Sharp
We made kva together with kurt and oliver, for oasys, as far as i know oasys banks are not for sale anymore. Anyway, what would change if i participated to kronos banks? Nothing.
michelkeijzers wrote:But a librarian and list generators are not available freely (except my app) so someone could use my code or parts of it to incorporate in their own code.
And it's not that I don't want other developers to benefit from, but I wouldn't like to see that others will ask money for something they didn't create themselves.
I haven't seen the code but I hope you list in the code as well as attached email/documentation that the code is protected work. Use in part or in whole is permitted with expressed written consent only in non commercial use or something like that. If they steal ANY of your code, SUE THE CRAP OUT OF THEM. MANY of us will help you defend and protect your work.
jimknopf wrote:
Kurt/Karo:
You only have two choices from my view: either show clear distance to what your former teammate has done here, ask him to stop this kind of hidden interest conflict immediately, because it hurts your business, and apologize for your own questionable first reaction (I saw your original post as well!).
Or unite with Peter Jung, duck away and face the consequences.
Everybody here would like to continue to respect you and all the work you put into your remarkable libraries. But clarification from your side is certainly not too much to ask from you now. So whatever you do: communicate with Sharp in a constructive way!
jimknopf wrote:I completely agree with Keego that much of this thread is absolute kindergarden level.
The only point to be taken serious in any way is the one which is causing trouble for Sharp:
It is absolutely unacceptable if someone who has been a close co-worker of Karo libraries, now supports a Karo case up to forms of advertising without giving any hint of his relations and his identity. Sharp has no choice than to react sharply (no pun intended) according to forum rules in such a case.
All other "big concerns" uttered in this thread apart from the completely normal question of the OP are questionable up to ridiculous IMHO. And finally anyone who is threatening with any form of sueing or playing around with any kind of hidden or open legal threats just makes a laughing stock of himself.
Kurt/Karo:
You only have two choices from my view: either show clear distance to what your former teammate has done here, ask him to stop this kind of hidden interest conflict immediately, because it hurts your business, and apologize for your own questionable first reaction (I saw your original post as well!).
Or unite with Peter Jung, duck away and face the consequences.
Everybody here would like to continue to respect you and all the work you put into your remarkable libraries. But clarification from your side is certainly not too much to ask from you now. So whatever you do: communicate with Sharp in a constructive way!
Cello:
I really try to understand your disappointemnt in a way. You have spent several hundred bucks for a Karo Oasys library, just to see it years later in updated and enhanced form as Kronos offer, taking advantage of the superior technical standards of the Kronos over the Oasys (SSD streaming, possibility of more velocity layers etc.), and still probably being offered for less than you paid.
But apart from this human understanding of disappointment I am sorry to say that I regard all your claims concerning the moral and legal status of the Karo Kronos libraries as unacceptable form of bashing up to badmouthing (instead of contacting Kurt directly BEFORE accusing him).
And frankly, I ask myself it that has to be regarded as weak reaction of one more continously ranting Oasys owner, who just doesn't get over the fact that the Kronos overall is the superior next generation workstation over the Oasys, and a completely legitimate one(!), from any perspective accepting the market rules Korg has to regard. My impression is that your disappointment casually has mislead you over the top, and from my view you really put a lot of completely unneccessary poison into this thread. I regard you essentially as quite a friendly character and don't think that this behaviour is helpful for anyone. If you wanted to put pressure to Kurt, this obviously worked, but in a way making things even worse.
I would appreciate if we could all come back to normal. The way it is now it is just plain silly: all loose and no one wins.
We want to enjoy the Kronos, with all the great soundstuff already available and still coming, and I for one will not surrender to anyone trying to spoil the party for nothing!
That exactly my point, and how would i said it if my native language was english.
michelkeijzers wrote:But a librarian and list generators are not available freely (except my app) so someone could use my code or parts of it to incorporate in their own code.
And it's not that I don't want other developers to benefit from, but I wouldn't like to see that others will ask money for something they didn't create themselves.
I haven't seen the code but I hope you list in the code as well as attached email/documentation that the code is protected work. Use in part or in whole is permitted with expressed written consent only in non commercial use or something like that. If they steal ANY of your code, SUE THE CRAP OUT OF THEM. MANY of us will help you defend and protect your work.
I have only sent the old code without copyright, but after that I did.
I also need to have some more legal text in the 'documentation'.
Thanks for offering defense, however I don't think it will come that far. It's just for 'just in case'. I hope to make a lot of people happy with my app and currently busy for upgrading to OS1.5 support. HOwever, I don't want to take over this thread. It is only a response after reading threads like this.
I too will respond financially toward karo products according to how they respond to Sharp and this forum. I am sure others will also.... What a waste it would be to throw away those sales... A high cost for honesty and mutual respect...in the most popular kronos site on the web. There will always be good samples on the market.
I want to officially apologize to Peter Jung as I did not want to make this sound like I do not trust him personally.
However, after reading such thread I think I have just to be cautious for sending source code that is unprotected. Some people warned me already and I already have added protection lines.
As said before: I have nothing against people personally, I just do not want that companies earn money on something not created themselves.
So I would like to thank Peter Jung for his interest in my program too.
michelkeijzers wrote:I want to officially apologize to Peter Jung as I did not want to make this sound like I do not trust him personally.
However, after reading such thread I think I have just to be cautious for sending source code that is unprotected. Some people warned me already and I already have added protection lines.
As said before: I have nothing against people personally, I just do not want that companies earn money on something not created themselves.
So I would like to thank Peter Jung for his interest in my program too.
I would recommend going forward that you have people sign a disclaimer before receiving ANY future code. Send them a .DOC and have them fill it out and agree to your terms before sending them code. Your software is by far the best and most useful software I've EVER had for my Korg keyboards and it'd be a shame if anyone but you earned any profit from it.
michelkeijzers wrote:I want to officially apologize to Peter Jung as I did not want to make this sound like I do not trust him personally.
However, after reading such thread I think I have just to be cautious for sending source code that is unprotected. Some people warned me already and I already have added protection lines.
As said before: I have nothing against people personally, I just do not want that companies earn money on something not created themselves.
So I would like to thank Peter Jung for his interest in my program too.
I would recommend going forward that you have people sign a disclaimer before receiving ANY future code. Send them a .DOC and have them fill it out and agree to your terms before sending them code. Your software is by far the best and most useful software I've EVER had for my Korg keyboards and it'd be a shame if anyone but you earned any profit from it.
Yes I think that would be a good idea.
However saying that I would have written the best software for Korg is not really true. The editors from Korg themselves are very nice and Alden Libarian also has some very nice features that I don't have (and probably never will have). I think the best software written might be Karma Labs, although it's quite a different type of project.
Michel, I cant understand why anyone would apologize ...or even allow any tolerance for people like Peter Jung and Karo..?? Why would you even send a guy like that your hard earned file you created..for Kronos users to enjoy and use on a personal level?? You mean you trust him after all that?? After him posting as he did..Spamming, creating multiple accounts to deceive then erasing all his posts to cover his A**?? And then Karo comes on denying working with him, calling Sharp a liar on his own website ??
You get rock-stoned here for posting about other mfgr keyboards i.e Roland ..but its all OK when this guy from Karo Sound does what he has done?? Jimknopf threatened to leave over someone posting about the Jupiter 80 in his threads, but then says we should wait for an apology from Karo?? Talk about being hypocritical??
You'll find these guys wont apologize for anything because he believes they have done nothing wrong...and will cover up any BS he can with lies...as he already has!! And anyone that believes that member oasys76 isnt a part or member of Karo Sound is sadly very very ignorant!!
Oh wait..I just edited this and added this.. maybe we should edit and delete our posts because they may sue us???
