Should a Parameter Guide BOOK for M50 be supplied?

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:28 pm

I think a parameter guide should mention and explain EVERYTHING and if 400+ pages are needed for that then let it be. But a CLEAR manual is far more important than a THICK manual.

On the other hand, maybe it would be nice not to have only a PDF file but also a HTML version where you can cross-reference through the manual ... I think I would prefer that even over a printed manual.

travanx · Post by **travanx** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:51 am

If they don't wanna include the book, maybe make it something to buy by registering and you can basically get it for free plush shipping? I want this book, but dunno just how much the ink costs to print this thing. =(

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:57 am

personally, I love having the manual for my TR available whenever I need it. and I can imagine it would encourage people (slightly, judging by the similar nature of all the other forums for devices which do have a printed parameter guide) to read the manual before they post here. if they even find it.

But being an IT guy, whenever I want to know something, I just go to the keyboard and try it out. its the same with computers. they only way to get familiar with them is to not be afraid to try it out. its not as if you can break it just by adjusting normal parameters. I think they only real thing that you can do wrong would be to adjust the contrast skyhigh or so low as to not see anything, and even then a factory reset will rescue you. seriously, if you want to know what you can assign the foot switch to, go look for the setting in global, and step through all the values. no harm there, and there's no better way to learn something than in context. you just have to try things.
the parameter guide ends up as more just reading material to me.
The most useful part seems to be the bit which explains all of the workings of the IFX. this is invaluable on my Radias, and the TR, where you can go and immeadiately see from the diagram whether an effect takes a mono input, or a stereo input and sums it to mono, or whether it works from stereo. and whether it outputs a stereo signal or a mono signal balanced between the two... etc.

also, whilst a PDF seems great for printing, (and I know we can't open these on the mac, which I do now use), it would be nice to see a .chm file, which are much more searchable and flexible... and in this day and age I think even on-screen help should be available on the board.

maybe they could provide a printed book as an 'accessory', and charge for it? but then it would probably be cheaper to just print and ring bind it yourself.

leonh · Post by **leonh** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:25 pm

I printed my copy I dont need all of it just looks nicer on shelf .Not everybody need all technical details ,I myself read only parts which I need to make music

Daz · Post by **Daz** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:47 pm

When looking at M50 manuals recently, I noticed some of the commentary for essential techniques appears to have moved from the printed Op Guide, to the PDF Param Guide, relative to Korg older gear. That is not a good development.

NuSkoolTone · Post by **NuSkoolTone** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:05 pm

Call me Old School, non-environmentally friendly or whatever, but I think it should have came IN THE BOX PRINTED with my M50!

Because:
-I don't have a work printer to abuse, and even if I did, I shouldn't be subjected to having to do this after dropping that kind of money.

-It will be expensive for me (More than Korg would have paid) to do so and won't look as nice or be as durable.

-Reading manuals on a computer SUCKS. (I can't emphasize ENOUGH how much I HATE this!)

-I much prefer to always be able to grab a BOOK instead of having to walk back and forth between my computer to read what I need to know. It just makes me not want to program! I don't want to use my laptop either. Find a place for it IN THE WAY waiting for the battery to die interrupting me from getting things done.

-It may be "eco-friendly" (or better said, a way to CUT COSTS), but IMO it's simply unprofessional.

So now that it's too late to put one in every box, PLEASE make an easy website where I can register and "ask" for a Parameter Guide, and I'll get it WITHIN ONE WEEK and not wait a month for it to properly program the machine i just bought.

Thanks.

Post by **mikemolloyuk** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:47 pm

It's much easier to print off the pages you need when you are woking (from the PDF) than ship a manual in full with the keyboard. The cost of producing the manual is added to the price of the unit, so if you want a cheaper keyboard jp and nuskool and we all want cheaper products, then it's an effective cost cutting exercise...

Mike

NuSkoolTone · Post by **NuSkoolTone** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:20 pm

uktechsupport wrote:It's much easier to print off the pages you need when you are woking (from the PDF) than ship a manual in full with the keyboard. The cost of producing the manual is added to the price of the unit, so if you want a cheaper keyboard jp and nuskool and we all want cheaper products, then it's an effective cost cutting exercise...

Mike

I respectfully disagree. It's a LOT easier to grab a book and flip to the page I need rather than make sure a computer is on and booted, find the file, open up the file, find the page, print it up, go to the printer and finally sit back down. Let's not forget the mess of papers I now have sitting there to cleanup or maintain!

This is the FIRST keyboard I've purchased that hasn't come with full documentation. This is only happening because users are giving manufacturers the impression that it's "OK" to do so.

Seriously what are we talking about for a REAL printed manual? $10? (In quantity that is)

jpscoey · Post by **jpscoey** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:33 pm

uktechsupport wrote:It's much easier to print off the pages you need when you are woking (from the PDF) than ship a manual in full with the keyboard. The cost of producing the manual is added to the price of the unit, so if you want a cheaper keyboard jp and nuskool and we all want cheaper products, then it's an effective cost cutting exercise..

Thanks for your input Mike, it's nice to know that these issues are noticed - but have you considered any of these scenarios? -

1. Unbelievable as it may seem to a lot of people (especially those who are involved in 'hi-tech' employment) - NOT EVERYBODY OWNS A COMPUTER!!!
I personally know many people who do not.

2. Of those who DO own a computer, not all of them have access to a printer (or in some cases one that works!)

3. The argument about cost of producing a booklet simply does not hold water. The RRP (UK) of M50-88 = £1,499.00.
The cost of a booklet, what £1 or 2...?

Korg produce a quarterly magazine -printed, in full-colour, on high-quality, 'glossy' paper (unlike the cheap stuff the owners manual is printed on)
- which is free of charge to anyone who requests it.

From the last copy of this mag (winter 2008) I quote from page 7...
"Designed as both a performing instrument and studio solution..."

Some people will buy an M50 primarily for use whilst performing on stage etc, and simply would like to know how to perform operations such as the one I mentioned in my earlier post -
therefore a much smaller companion book to the owners manual could be produced - all the technical specifications etc could be left on the CD-ROM.

Sorry Mike, but you'd have to come up with a more feasible argument than the one offered above to convince me!!!

Post by **mikemolloyuk** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:27 pm

All points noted from Korg's position...!!

I can see as I post this that the voting is close but so far the no's have it....

Ultimetaly Korg in Japan have the casting vote on this one and we stopped manuals being put in the box shortly after the Oasys was released. The PG is the size of a phone book.... so as products become more complex and feature rich, the manuals will get thicker.....

all points are noted everyone.....

Mike

jpscoey · Post by **jpscoey** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:50 pm

'

Hang on a minute!...

I've just re-read this & my earlier reply was more about the 'cost' issue....

uktechsupport wrote:It's much easier to print off the pages you need when you are woking (from the PDF)
than ship a manual in full with the keyboard.

Question... easier for who???

(I think that's what you'd call a rhetorical question, if ever there was one!)

Post by **Sharp** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:27 pm

Pscoey.

Regardless of how you feel on the subject, the future is quite simply a world without printed manuals, and it's not going to stop there either.

If you just take one device from Amazon alone, they sold over 500 Million Kindle 1 units in the year 2008. Kindle 2 is now for 2009 and there's also a large number of other eBook Readers available too.

Regards.
Sharp.

jpscoey · Post by **jpscoey** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:58 pm

Sharp wrote:Pscoey.

Regardless of how you feel on the subject, the future is quite simply a world without printed manuals, and it's not going to stop there either.

If you just take one device from Amazon alone, they sold over 500 Million Kindle 1 units in the year 2008. Kindle 2 is now for 2009 and there's also a large number of other eBook Readers available too.

Regards.
Sharp.

Hello Sharp, thanks for your info about the 'Kindle'- I 'googled' it & the first article I came across was the following....

QUOTE... the cutting-edge Kindle 2 still falls short of the traditional book in many ways.

The black-and-white screen cannot render text with either the crispness or the contrast of a well-printed book.
As for charts, it handles them far better than the first-generation Kindle, but far worse than any mimeographed pamphlet, let alone any professionally printed book.

Worse, the six-inch screen is smaller than most any paperback, so you're constantly pushing the button to flip the page.

Even ignoring all these technical limitations, the Kindle suffers many other shortcomings that Amazon intentionally built into the system.

The Kindle can't display PDFs, Word documents, Excel spreadsheets or any other standard file format.

END QUOTE.

Let me make it clear... I am no Luddite, and this is not a personal vendetta of mine -
I just really think that the arguments offered so far are not, to my mind, credible.

I'm still waiting for a convincing reason!!!

Xenomorph · Post by **Xenomorph** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 4:30 pm

jpscoey wrote:
Sharp wrote:Pscoey.

Regardless of how you feel on the subject, the future is quite simply a world without printed manuals, and it's not going to stop there either.

If you just take one device from Amazon alone, they sold over 500 Million Kindle 1 units in the year 2008. Kindle 2 is now for 2009 and there's also a large number of other eBook Readers available too.

Regards.
Sharp.
Hello Sharp, thanks for your info about the 'Kindle'- I 'googled' it & the first article I came across was the following....

QUOTE... the cutting-edge Kindle 2 still falls short of the traditional book in many ways.

The black-and-white screen cannot render text with either the crispness or the contrast of a well-printed book.
As for charts, it handles them far better than the first-generation Kindle, but far worse than any mimeographed pamphlet, let alone any professionally printed book.

Worse, the six-inch screen is smaller than most any paperback, so you're constantly pushing the button to flip the page.

Even ignoring all these technical limitations, the Kindle suffers many other shortcomings that Amazon intentionally built into the system.

The Kindle can't display PDFs, Word documents, Excel spreadsheets or any other standard file format.

END QUOTE.

Let me make it clear... I am no Luddite, and this is not a personal vendetta of mine -
I just really think that the arguments offered so far are not, to my mind, credible.

I'm still waiting for a convincing reason!!!

Seems you are waiting for something that isn't out there. We will be getting less and less paper documentations with our products as time passes. No excuse or reason from a company as to why is going to change that fact.

Synthoid · Post by **Synthoid** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 4:54 pm

Sharp wrote:Regardless of how you feel on the subject, the future is quite simply a world without printed manuals, and it's not going to stop there either.

Sad but true. I do miss hard copies of manuals.

I agree that reading from a computer screen just doesn't cut it.

Korg Forums

Should a Parameter Guide BOOK for M50 be supplied?

Should a Parameter Guide booklet be provided as standard?