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Hi ozy - I see where you're coming from and I totally agree! Although, I have to say that I did not mean my reaction to be seen as a negative against the OASYS. The O is modular in many ways, and like you, I previously had a whole chain of Korgs 'plugged in'.

That chain was very familiar - and as you say, I felt there was no 'horizon' that could not be crossed. What the O does with its massive capability (which is the positive), it too has no horizon but it has to be learned - as we all did with previous tools to get to the music.

And that's where I am - learning the tool, so I can explore the music! The O is a seriously good instrument (I'd argue the best) and I am being very demanding of myself to ensure that my music makes the best use of the OASYS.

@ Synergy - I may have missed something about those who cried out for a better sequencer, I was certainly one of them. Was there some sort of list that was generated from the survey about how many wanted this or that?

I guess I had the opposite impression, that many complained about the sequencer, but it is entirely possible I remember wrong. Where did your information come from? Is there a post you could direct me to so I can read it?

Ken

Hi,

All questions have already discussed many times before in other topics but I still try to answer the best I can.

TonyGen wrote:

Akos Janca wrote:Anyhow, when I sit down to play music I can easily forget the price. Always.

Not sure how the Oasys being discontinued and support all but finished should help me forget the price I paid originally

I see your point. I can forget the price when I use OASYS because it's so enjoyable in any situation - at rehearsals, in the studio, on stage. It's sensitive and sounds unbelievable under my fingers. One tool that provides wider possibilities than others in one package but still handleable, feels like an instrument - and not a PC, for example. It gives so much. It doesn't block me, on the contrary, it allows/helps me to express myself. It's like an extension of my "musical self" = it's a wonderful musical instrument. And at last but not least it looks gorgeous. So: sounds, feels, looks very good - good enough that you can proudly take and use it anywhere. (If you are strong enough because it's extremely heavy - a disadvantage if you want one. )

TonyGen wrote: I thought (obviously incorrectly) that I paid a high price for the Oasys for it being future proofed and that there would be many years of sequencer improvements, system/sound updates, third party contributions....

I really don't remember exactly the original Korg ads - what was promised and what wasn't. But if they lied then somebody could easily sue them, not? Nobody did.
Seriously: we got system and sound updates. Unfortunately we haven't got sequencer improvements. In my opinion it's better without third-party contributions - if you mean sound engine development for example - I prefer the rock stable operation of Korg-developed parts.

TonyGen wrote: I love the Oasys. I hate the price Korg conned me into paying for it, especially given the M3 is afforded more improvements (certainly sequencer-wise) than the supposed flagship

I understand and I agree from one point of view. But we still speculate and don't know would it be easy to improve the sequencer in OASYS or not? How much would it cost considering everything? Don't forget that the whole operating system and all functions should be thoroughly tested again before distributing the software upgrade. Good product support should be needed, too, to answer user questions/problems. It seems Korg don't have resources for all this - for some reason.

TonyGen wrote: I said I won't buy Korg again...

Neither will I… because I don't have the money and OASYS is enough for me at the moment.

TonyGen wrote: I have purchased Roland gear recently. Very happy with it and a nice 3 year warranty. Is it better than the Oasys? Well it's not a workstation so not really comparable, but it was certainly affordable and it wasn't sold with any potentially unfulfillable promises either and as the advert says it does exactly what it says on the tin

It can be even "better than OASYS" if it suits better to your needs. But it's a different product with different advert. We are comparing apple to pear. It doesn't help I think.

ozy wrote: I never bought the Oasys because...

It's your preference that should be accepted by everybody, of course. You like your gear and it's fine, you are lucky. Sorry, but I have to ask why do you write here?

ozy wrote:No thanks, I'll go on using 20 synths, each of them knowable and mastered, each of them I can program with one hand tied behind my back...

Congratulations! I think learning and using 20 synths well can be even more scary than OASYS.

ozy wrote: This is also why I love MODULARITY...

I think modularity has advantages and disadvantages, too. Pros: more keys (keyboards) to play on, splitting is rarely needed, parts can be changed/repaired easily and at lower costs, transporting can be better in smaller portions. Cons: more cables, more electric sockets, more channels or an extra mixer needed, synchronizing issues, more cables again , more keyboard stands, more flight cases, mess, etc.

ozy wrote:I can't sit in front of a Cathedral and have it dictate my inspiration. I love exploring the unknown: but that's the MUSIC, not the TOOLS.

It seems OASYS is not for your needs or would be too complicated for you. It really takes time to learn it in details but it's certainly possible - many of us succeeded here. The proper tool is almost always also inspiring. If you feel otherwise don't bother with OASYS.

P.S. I hope all this helps. I write here because I already got many help from friendly people on this forum and while I still want to learn more I also want to give something back, I want to share experiences and meaningful thoughts to help others in good faith.
Sometimes I don't understand the goal of other guys.

Oh, dear - I didn't really intend for this thread to bring out why it shouldn't be bought/kept/whatever!

ANY and ALL instruments are subjective - now and always. My wife tried several cellos for many months before deciding to buy one for the financial equivalent of 10 brand new OASYS'. There were many fine makes she tried, but she needed to use them for weeks, get the feel for them, how it responded to her playing style and the demands of live solo work, chamber work, CD work and orchestral work. Her decision does NOT mean the other cellos were not fit for the purpose - they just didn't work for her.

And so to the beautiful OASYS. Same goes. It may not work for everyone. Why do we have to keep bringing up elements that are nothing to do with how powerful this machine is NOW. Without seq upgrades, without extra sound generators, without piano roll, without drum track, without extra sounds... yada, yada? There are not many machines out there that are as powerful as the OASYS - in its CURRENT state.

Akos summed it up perfectly -

It seems OASYS is not for your needs or would be too complicated for you. It really takes time to learn it in details but it's certainly possible - many of us succeeded here. The proper tool is almost always also inspiring. If you feel otherwise don't bother with OASYS.

I have a daily journey in discovery with my O - and I can't tell you the delight when today, for the first time I edited sound paramaters, Karma and Fx. Probably no big deal to a lot of you experts out there - but today, creativity streamed in gushes from me and my OASYS. Creativity simply not possible with any other instrument, I believe. So, popular action or not, I thank Korg for creating it in the first place.

Akos Janca wrote: but I have to ask why do you write here?

Why do I wrote here?!?!

How daring and impolite!

1) because this is not a Korg CHURCH, this is a Korg FORUM.

"Forum" as in "debate" and "get improvement on the products by way of criticism", as opposed to "belonging to a community".

I own instruments and use them, I appreciate the work of Korg engineers and still can criticize them.

I GET critisim for the music i make, I DO criticism for the instruments others make.

The headline of this thread shocked me, so I read it.

And after reading the comments from somebody who forked 6000 bucks for an Oasys, I felt even more uneasy.

If you feel you BELONG to some Korg "community", and that one's gotta forcefully LOVE what he buys, well, suits you.

I love music, not the tools of the trade.

So, I can PLAN buying an Oasys, I can read about it, I can discuss about it, and still I can feel uneasy about buying it, and I will tell it. Here.

Where, if not here?

2) because I have been a Korg customer for... ouch... 30 years now.

I have owned and used most of Korg professional tools. I still own and use several. I still cayy in my live setup Korg tools who have survideved the AGES.

And I feel a little bit, just a little bit, of entitlement to express my opinion.

I could have bought the Oasys, which I tested extensively before choosing not to [I bought am M3-88 full expansion instead, will probably buy another for gigs],

I COULD still buy a used one,

and I THINK carefully before spending my money.

Now, may I go on taking part to this discussion, or only praise is allowed?

Korg bless you, and have a nice evening.

Sorry for being a bit harsh, but patronizing is never advised.

oops

Hey, ozy - nobody's debating your right to express your point view! Of course not! I love my O (can't use it yet!) and dont feel let down. But you feel let down. Absolutely fair enough.

But please don't have a go at people who are kind enough to help people like me who want to be helped get the best out of my own investment, while not as much as some, could still have bought a decent car instead...

I too have bought korg instruments for about 30 years - brand new Delta was first. I absolutely simply will not, ever, buy any other electronic instrument. Stupid maybe, but I 'get' Korg and it works for me. Just like my wife - she only uses one brand of string for her cellos. She will not be shifted to another.

And please don't get me wrong - I am not blindly loyal. The best electronic keyboard (as opposed to a Steinway or Bechstein) I have played is a Korg. The absolutely worst electronic keyboard I have played is... a KORG!

It's called a Trinity. Absolutely the work of the devil and in no way even close to what I expect of a Korg. Don't know why anyone would spend any more than $10 on one - TouchView is the only useful part of the whole thing.

But I don't go to the Trinity part of this forum and express such views - no matter how much I feel let down! Trinity users are entitled to love their board - and get the best out of it for them. Like my wife and some of the cellos she tried, the Trinity was an instrument that doesn't work for me. I have nothing useful to say to Trinity users so I stay out of their forum.

Have you owned an O? I can't tell! I hope you enjoy your M3 - I thought mine was great but am selling it at the moment - don't need an M3 and an O.

Dear ozy and all,

1. I really didn't want to be daring and impolite. See also the first two polite sentences in the paragraph before I wrote "why do you write here".

2. I still don't understand your goal. This thread is about an experience of an OASYS owner. I'm just another owner who tried to answer and help him. I read your original post sarcastic. Do you wanted to help somehow? Sorry if I misunderstood you.

3. No, it's not a church. Some of us here simply like our OASYS. I hope it's not a shame. You are satisfied with your gear and you are probably averse to OASYS. I don't see a problem.

4. You could by OASYS. That's great. (It was not easy for me.) If you did, please help us sharing your experiences here. Criticism too, if you will. But please check it first searching for similar opinions because we have a lot already - it's an old forum.

5. Maybe Sharp should start a separate sticky topic titled "I Don't Have OASYS And Here I Tell You Why" or "The Ultimate Why Don't Buy OASYS Guide" or "My Gear Is Much Better Than OASYS, Do You Believe It?" and kindly ask the interested guys to post their opinions there. I mean it.

Peace, anyway.

kenackr wrote:@ Synergy - I may have missed something about those who cried out for a better sequencer, I was certainly one of them. Was there some sort of list that was generated from the survey about how many wanted this or that?

I guess I had the opposite impression, that many complained about the sequencer, but it is entirely possible I remember wrong. Where did your information come from? Is there a post you could direct me to so I can read it?

I rememer it all like it was yesterday. Unfortunately it was in the days of Irish Act (pre 2007). Of course all archeives were gone (between 2005 to 2007) when they changed the forum name to Korg forum. I even remember arguing with one of the founding bedfellows who vehemently denied just about everything I've said against the sequencer.

But to be fair, there were this particular group of people who regularily came into the forum complaining just about everything Oasys (including the price tag) without even owning one. Naturally Oasys owners had to do what they had to do. Anyone who criticized Oasys was considered a troll even if you owned one.

Then in 2006, Korg did a major survey on a few critical wishlist such as effects, string Exi, pop Exi, brass Exi, elec.piano Exi, HD-1, FM, Karma and seq, etc. I couldn't believe my eyes when the result came out. The most requested wishlist was a brass Exi, FM, the Karma and so on. The sequencer was the least of the bunch. At first I thought Korg concocted the outcome. But then I couldn't ignore the fact that many of the forum members couldn't resist hiding fangs every time when I brought up the seq issue. If you don't believe me, see it's de javu all over again even on this particular thread.

Ironically many of them left the forum after they sold theirs out of frustration and those who bought the second hand are the ones who are once again wearing the Oasys of rightousness.

cello wrote:Why do we have to keep bringing up elements that are nothing to do with how powerful this machine is NOW. Without seq upgrades, without extra sound generators, without piano roll, without drum track, without extra sounds... yada, yada? There are not many machines out there that are as powerful as the OASYS - in its CURRENT state.

Welcome to the jungle. You must be a newbie to the world of workstation.

What you REALLY don't seem to understand but what you MUST know is that even the Synclavier was a pioneer in hard-disk recording. It was amazing when it was released. When I worked on one in 1988, however, I was ALREADY AMAZED at the DEFICIENCIES in the sequencer, in comparison to Performer on the Mac - and that was MORE than 20 YEARS ago.

It's true, many things happened in the past on this forum. In my opinion we should concentrate on the present and future now therefore Cello is right when he wrotes about the current state of OASYS. The production and development has finished. What we can do? Let's think about OASYS as a completed final product - at least from now on.

The sequencer is one of the weakest parts in OASYS. Everybody knows that. Even a newbie. (Cello is not a newbie anyway.) It's also clear that a computer sequencer was and is always more improved than a workstation sequencer. Manufacturers haven't improved (couldn't? didn't want to?) the sequencer in workstations - compared to computers - for some good reasons. We can guess. Maybe they think most of the customers don't need it, see the survey for example. I would like to have the newer functions of M3 sequencer in OASYS. Still, OASYS sequencer can be considered amazing now because it's not a separate product but a part of an amazing instrument and allows us to make first class music with it.

IMHO: Without doubt quick and easy editability is a big advantage in any digital data processing workflow. But copy-paste and other "tricks" themselves rarely result valuable creations. Music is like a wide ocean from primitive styles to masterpieces and many in-between. All of them can be written/created and many of them can also be recorded/mastered/produced using only OASYS sequencer as it is. Today.

It's a dejà vu for me, too. Or a bit worse - because continous complaining now is pointless and leading to nowhere. This forum should help today's users.

^ Absolutely right, Akos!

Akos,

I'm getting a bit tired of being given sermons about whether I should complain about the lack of future proofness of the Oasys.

If I had bought my Oasys second hand last week with full knowledge that Korg were discontinuing further improvement I wouldn't complain.

But that isn't the case. I paid full whack for the Oasys. Korg were happy to pocket my money and sell me the Oasys "with an open architecture that promises years and years of future-proof salability..."

As to whether Korg lied about the Oasys, this is the marketing spiel:

"Imagine the Possibilities. Imagine a keyboard workstation that delivers a new level of musical fidelity and sound quality combined with a vast array of assignable control elements. Add to that vision a 16-track digital audio workstation, studio-quality effects, a CD-RW drive and a 10.4-inch TouchView display all powered by an ultra-fast processor, newly-developed proprietary software atop Linux underpinnings with an open architecture that promises years and years of future-proof salability and youve scratched the surface of the potential waiting for you in the most innovative keyboard workstation we've seen in a very long time the Korg OASYS. From Inspiration to Finished Project Redefined The Korg OASYS is not only an entirely new instrument, its a completely new platform to support your musical ideas through Korg innovation for years to come. Much more than a typical keyboard workstation, the Korg OASYS delivers everything you need to take your music from first thought to finished CD. You can build your song with the OASYS' 16-channel MIDI sequencer, AND record vocals, guitars and other instruments without ever having to leave your piano bench. Plus, new synthesis methods for creating sound (EXi Expansion Instruments), new effects (EXf Expansion Effects), and additional ROM libraries (EXs Expansion Sample Libraries) can be added to the sonically-rich choices already in the OASYS, ensuring that OASYS will remain the centerpiece of your musical world well into the future. The Korg OASYS is available in both 76-key and 88-key versions. Other than the number of keys, and key types, they are identical in features and specs."

So no more lecturing on whether I should complain please. In my opinion Korg have behaved disgracefully. My opinion won't change. If you believe otherwise that's fine by me. I am not asking or expecting you to change your opinion.

Tony.

Sigh ...

It seems this thread got hijacked. I do understand the resentments - although I prefer not sharing them (... just doesn't make as much fun as enjoying the upsides of a decision ... and usually being angry doesn't change the situation I got into). But this thread was meant for a different subject. Perhaps people being annoyed by Korgs Oasys-policy could share their resentments in threads related to this subject. I believe this thread is meant for people being excited about their Oasys - if not even scared by its power!

If someone is contending for sake of contend is something to be concerned. But if anyone is contenting for sake of content is a bad news because the early adaptors of Oasys paid dearly for it. That's why we are differ in our perspective that many of the new comers paid nowhere near the price the early adaptors spent on the O.
I wish I could contribute to something for the better but when I complain about the seq, no one seem to want to talk about the remedies or tips on how to get around with it but instead regurgitating the orations in honor of Oasys.

Or that maybe the owners of Oasys aren't really musically talented after all. I refrained to say this for a long time but seriously it all seems the owners are really in for the wow factor than anything else. I bet the Korg officials were itching to say this. You see people who own other instruments cranking out cool music on Youtube but for some reason, the owners of Oasys have the propensity to dig in the distorted guitars or the distorted elec.piano as long as I could remember. Truly I haven't seen a single owner who kenw how to utilize the distorted seq for what's worth.

Hence the Korg probably knew that these so called upscale buyers of Oasys couldn't care less about the seq just as how owners of the exotic cars and bikes couldn't care less about anything but the eyes of beholders so the manufacturers get around the law with the crash test and omit airbags here and there blaming all on the economy.

Here is the proposition. Rather than listening to the same ol' hymn in scriptures, I'd like to hear a masterpiece done by all the aposltes of the Oasys in all its glory. The trick is that no other synths can't be used and that you must include at least 8 tracks of audio not from the samples but from the mics.


cello, you still haven't answered me. What can you say about the statement about the Syclavier sequencer I mentioned?

cello wrote:

It's called a Trinity. Absolutely the work of the devil and in no way even close to what I expect of a Korg. Don't know why anyone would spend any more than $10 on one the Trinity was an instrument that doesn't work for me..

Its interesting how people Connect with instruments and others don't,yet we've sort of evolved to the same destination with the Oasys both in terms of sound capabilities and workflow,The Trinity for me was pretty much my main workhorse for a good few years both soundwise and Sequencing,infact I've never sequenced so much on one workstation as I did with the Trinity

I had two of them,I loved them to death,but in the end I needed to free up space and due to gigging with one(it had seen better days that along with an 01wfd Was my live rig for 4 years) so eventually sold both of them on but I still wanted the sounds to compliment the Oasys and plus I had loads of my own sounds I made that I didn't want to lose so bought a Rack version,I no longer sequenced on the Trinity as I had pretty much outgrown the sequencing capabilities it offered so the hardware was pretty much redundant

Its kind of what started off the Oasys evolution,and I guess like many others we progressed onto the Triton,which followed onto the Oasys which in many ways has the same sort of workflow to use and like most users found the transition from the Trinity,to the Triton and then to Oasys a breeze.Its not a brand loyalty that made with stick with Korg but more of a zero Learning curve and workflow familiarity so its Interesting that you come full circle in the choice to take to the Oasys workflow but your early experiences with the Trinity were not favourable,have you any experience on the Triton series

What was it that made you never connect with the Trinity??I wonder if now after sometime with the Oasys if you went back to revisit the Trinity would you gel