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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:52 pm
by danatkorg
Hi Aron,
Muting works one way in Programs and Combis, and a different way in Songs.
In Programs and Combis, the assumption is that muting is used during the process of sound design. For this purpose, mute works as it does on an audio mixer: all notes play, and mute merely affects their volume. This is especially convenient when working on long, evolving sounds.
In Songs, mute works on the sequencer side of the equation, and so notes simply aren't played at all. This is necessary when sequencing external gear, for instance.
That said, I can understand why people might wish things to work the opposite way in either case. Perhaps a preference parameter would be the solution.
Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:58 pm
by CfNorENa
danatkorg wrote:In Songs, mute works on the sequencer side of the equation, and so notes simply aren't played at all.
With no impact on polyphony?
Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:02 pm
by danatkorg
CfNorENa wrote:danatkorg wrote:In Songs, mute works on the sequencer side of the equation, and so notes simply aren't played at all.
With no impact on polyphony?
In Songs, muted notes aren't played, and unplayed notes don't have an affect on polyphony.
- Dan
Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:09 pm
by aron
Thanks Dan.
You know, I would give up SST if it would allow me to just do this one thing. I've gotten so used to be able to dial up one combi and then fade in/out:
Piano
Rhodes
FM piano
Pad
Strings
Synth Brass
Brass Section
Organ
It's so liberating to be able to mix and match and fade in/out that to go backwards is going to be difficult.
Another thing was that I was hoping to do is layer at least:
Piano+MOD7+HD1+Polysix
But it appears that would severely tax the polyphony limit of the Kronos.
Here's the one that got me to buy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHV3rnkG ... re=related
23-57 seconds.
Aron
Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:19 pm
by CfNorENa
danatkorg wrote:In Songs, muted notes aren't played, and unplayed notes don't have an affect on polyphony.
Thanks for the confirmation.
Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:31 pm
by EvilDragon
danatkorg wrote:In Programs and Combis, the assumption is that muting is used during the process of sound design. For this purpose, mute works as it does on an audio mixer: all notes play, and mute merely affects their volume. This is especially convenient when working on long, evolving sounds.
For program mode, ok. For combi mode, it would make a LOT more sense that muted sounds simply aren't played at all...
Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:40 pm
by aron
The main and primary reason why I use my PC361 is the polyphony algorithm. It's just been right for so many years. Yamaha has incredibly great sounds, but the polyphony algorithm has gotten worse and note stealing is rampant.
Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:48 pm
by danatkorg
aron wrote:The main and primary reason why I use my PC361 is the polyphony algorithm.
I'll be interested to hear what you think of the KRONOS in this respect. It has a lot going on in that area...
Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:54 pm
by Mike Conway
As a workaround, you can copy Combis to the Song slots (up to 200 of them in one SNG load). You could then assign them to a Setlist and wouldn't be able to tell if you were playing a Combi or a Song.
aron wrote:I've mentioned polyphony many times with re: to the Kronos. In fact the reason why I bought was when Rich said something "like say goodbye to polyphony limits."
Korg have coaxed a high level of multi-engine performance, giving you more polyphony than a computer of equal power. But, you need to stick to the numbers, which have always been:
SGX-1: 100 voices (dual stereo equals up to 400 voices, but you are playing 4 voices on every note - hence 100 notes.)
EP-1: 104 voices
HD-1: 140 voices
AL-1: 80 voices
CX-3: 200 voices
STR-1: 40 voices
MOD-7: 52 voices
MS-20EX: 40 voices
PolySixEX: 180 voices
Study these numbers. As you see, if you use a STR-1 or MS-20 program, 40 notes are max. Dual oscillator programs are 20 notes. Unison mode makes that even less, so you could be struggling to play two chords. Same with HD-1 stereo voices or anything that crossfades (2 waves at once), like a layer or Wave Sequence.
Stacking a CX-3 (200 voices) with an STR-1 program (40 voices) will not give you 100 notes. It will be less than 40.
If you are really into stacks, use engines that have high poly counts - PolySix, CX-3, HD-1.
NOTE: in Combi or Sequencer modes, you can select TIMBRE PARAMETER/TRACK PARAMETER tab, then the OSC tab. Here you can set MAX # OF NOTES. In other words, you can set the STR-1 to a limited number of notes, so that your sustain pedal (AKA your biggest note hog offender) won't use up all 40, leaving nothing left for your piano.
Alternately, you can go to the MIDI FILTER/ZONES page and uncheck the ENABLE DAMPER (pedal) box for certain sounds. If your strings have a slow decay, you don't want the damper holding them anyway.
Program mode also has MAX # OF NOTES, on the BASIC/VECTOR - PROGRAM BASIC page.
Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:56 pm
by aron
Yes but Dan, I mean in a layered context. With the Kronos, I am out of polyphony already. It's acting similar to my Yamaha.
Maybe I need to run it Seq mode then run local off and run a MIDI cable back into the keyboard. Would that work?
Never mind, I see that you said it mutes the sequencer. That wouldn't work I think.
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:03 am
by EvilDragon
It would still be good to have an option that muting actually DOESN'T PLAY notes in any mode, not just Song mode. Working around stuff is not a good practice.
(And also, I've gotten used to how Kurzweil handles polyphony regarding muted zones - which is a lot better than what I read is happening on Korgs
It shouldn't be too hard to add such option to Global mode in an OS update, Dan, should it?)
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:09 am
by Chriskk
Why would anyone want muting to play notes and eat up polyphony?
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:12 am
by EvilDragon
Beats me...
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:21 am
by aron
I don't think song mode will work either. AFAIK you can only select one track at a time. The Karma trick doesn't seem to work either - it's for one sound at a time. It just switches between scenes ... at least that's what I think.
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:21 am
by MartinHines
Chriskk wrote:Why would anyone want muting to play notes and eat up polyphony?
I think it is just the way muting was designed, i.e. to mute the audio output, as opposed to not generating the sound in the first place.