My Kronos impressions

Discussion relating to the Korg Kronos Workstation.

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EvilDragon
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Post by EvilDragon »

Let me chime in with my first time experiences, too.

I had a solid session with Kronos 61 the other day with a friend of mine. In short, I will say that I was underwhelmed by strings (PC3 definitely trumps those from my first-hand perspective) and HD-1 sounds in general. Damn, those were some lousy harpsichord samples, my X5D has them better done, and STR-1 one felt too synthetic. Also pizzicato strings were horrid in the upper range, they sound much better on my PC3K. Brass... eh, skip them.

I very much dislike the CX-3 distortion in comparison with KB3 on Kurzweil, which is far better sounding now since OS 2.0. However VB3 is IMHO still the best Hammond emulation there is, and I have it on my V-Machine, so I'm not bothered by that.

I know a lot of people on this board won't agree with me, but I don't care, really. :lol: Kurzweil has managed to put better sounding orchestra samples in their 64 MB ROM than Kronos' 3 GB (when you subtract the brute-forced 9 GB they used for pianos (which proves they cannot really make a nice and optimized sample set, in fact), you get 3 GB of "base ROM", more or less). That's my opinion, feel free to disagree, but it's how it sounds to me. My 2 cents.

Synth engines are amazing, though. I wish I could get all of them in a separate box, without the other engines. One thing that I noticed, though, and I don't really like it, is that the resonance sweeps sounded virtually the same when bumped to the max, no matter which engine I was using. And no, it's not the monitoring system, the friend who was there next to me noticed the same thing. I was expecting more difference between the filters, but right now, I feel quite confused.

SGX-1 and EP-1 are pretty darn good, though. I wouldn't use Japanese grand out of personal preferences, but German one is sounding quite nice.

Physically, the data wheel is absolute crap, compared to the one on my PC3K8. That's no contest. Korg should fire the ones who thought this design was a good idea. Other than that, I feel that knobs are a bit too small, they could definitely be bigger in diameter. Sliders were very firm, though, solid response, a tiny bit sideways wiggle though. And oh for crying out loud, give me endless rotaries instead of fixed-range knobs already! It's a premium priced product, I want the goods. Endless rotaries are a much better solution than ordinary knobs when you have a flexible machine like Kronos. Korg, get to your senses and start using more endless rotaries on your future workstations!

Plastic sides are looking very cheap, and I don't like them one bit. However overall construction does feel very solid, except the data wheel. It was very light, which is great if you're doing gigs often.

Oh, there's one more thing I must comment on. I absolutely dislike the drum tracks feature, it should be turned off globally by default. I know I'm probably alone in this, but like I said once above, I don't care. :lol: There's one more thing I didn't like - even when I disabled drum tracks in Global, THE DRUMKIT PARTS WERE STILL TURNED ON IN COMBIS! Which means that I played whatever the combi it was, overlaid with those drums! Which is what I did NOT want to happen! If I turn off the drum tracks, could you be so kind to mute the drum parts of all the combis, too? Sheesh. That one irritated me right there, on the spot. Just thought I'd mention it. If there's a way to make it go away, I'm all ears. If not, my only solution would be wiping all combi banks clean before using the product seriously. At least in my case.


Overall: Kronos feels like hit and miss to me. Definitely NOT worth the 3000€ asking price over here in Europe. PERHAPS worth the price you guys are getting it for over there in USA, and I'm talking about the $2600 preorder price some of you got it for.


I'm gonna wait for Kurzweil's next big thing. And I have a feeling that Kronos isn't gonna be that tough a nut to crack.


Peace.
EvilDragon
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Post by EvilDragon »

jimknopf wrote:After programming my first organ sounds myself, I think the CX3 is a great clone, and KB3 certainly doesn't even come remotely near. Kurzweil just is well in programming presets, even on a weak B3clone engine basis.
Then try programming KB3 a little, and you will see that it's actually a great clone, too. Even a better one than CX-3, with the new Leslie chains from OS2.0. If Kurzweil's sound engineers can make their KB3 sound great, why couldn't you, or anybody else? Your argument is a bit of a moot point.

KB3 is not weak. The tonewheels (which are, after all, THE CORE of the sound) are done right. You connect a dry tonewheel KB3 sound to a real Leslie speaker, and hell, you won't notice a difference to an actual Hammond B3/C3. That's a tried-and-tested fact. There were criticisms about PC3's Leslie simulation early on, sure, no doubt, but everything is much better sounding since the latest OS updates.

Some reactions on how KB3 sounds live with the new Leslie FX chain:

http://forum.sonikmatter.com/forums/ind ... eal-thing/
Last edited by EvilDragon on Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by GregC »

EvilDragon wrote:Let me chime in with my first time experiences, too.

I had a solid session with Kronos 61 the other day with a friend of mine. In short, I will say that I was underwhelmed by strings (PC3 definitely trumps those from my first-hand perspective) and HD-1 sounds in general. Damn, those were some lousy harpsichord samples, my X5D has them better done, and STR-1 one felt too synthetic. Also pizzicato strings were horrid in the upper range, they sound much better on my PC3K. Brass... eh, skip them.

I very much dislike the CX-3 distortion in comparison with KB3 on Kurzweil, which is far better sounding now since OS 2.0. However VB3 is IMHO still the best Hammond emulation there is, and I have it on my V-Machine, so I'm not bothered by that.

I know a lot of people on this board won't agree with me, but I don't care, really. :lol: Kurzweil has managed to put better sounding orchestra samples in their 64 MB ROM than Kronos' 3 GB (when you subtract the brute-forced 9 GB they used for pianos (which proves they cannot really make a nice and optimized sample set, in fact), you get 3 GB of "base ROM", more or less). That's my opinion, feel free to disagree, but it's how it sounds to me. My 2 cents.

Synth engines are amazing, though. I wish I could get all of them in a separate box, without the other engines. One thing that I noticed, though, and I don't really like it, is that the resonance sweeps sounded virtually the same when bumped to the max, no matter which engine I was using. And no, it's not the monitoring system, the friend who was there next to me noticed the same thing. I was expecting more difference between the filters, but right now, I feel quite confused.

SGX-1 and EP-1 are pretty darn good, though. I wouldn't use Japanese grand out of personal preferences, but German one is sounding quite nice.

Physically, the data wheel is absolute crap, compared to the one on my PC3K8. That's no contest. Korg should fire the ones who thought this design was a good idea. Other than that, I feel that knobs are a bit too small, they could definitely be bigger in diameter. Sliders were very firm, though, solid response, a tiny bit sideways wiggle though. And oh for crying out loud, give me endless rotaries instead of fixed-range knobs already! It's a premium priced product, I want the goods. Endless rotaries are a much better solution than ordinary knobs when you have a flexible machine like Kronos. Korg, get to your senses and start using more endless rotaries on your future workstations!

Plastic sides are looking very cheap, and I don't like them one bit. However overall construction does feel very solid, except the data wheel. It was very light, which is great if you're doing gigs often.

Oh, there's one more thing I must comment on. I absolutely dislike the drum tracks feature, it should be turned off globally by default. I know I'm probably alone in this, but like I said once above, I don't care. :lol: There's one more thing I didn't like - even when I disabled drum tracks in Global, THE DRUMKIT PARTS WERE STILL TURNED ON IN COMBIS! Which means that I played whatever the combi it was, overlaid with those drums! Which is what I did NOT want to happen! If I turn off the drum tracks, could you be so kind to mute the drum parts of all the combis, too? Sheesh. That one irritated me right there, on the spot. Just thought I'd mention it. If there's a way to make it go away, I'm all ears. If not, my only solution would be wiping all combi banks clean before using the product seriously. At least in my case.


Overall: Kronos feels like hit and miss to me. Definitely NOT worth the 3000€ asking price over here in Europe. PERHAPS worth the price you guys are getting it for over there in USA, and I'm talking about the $2600 preorder price some of you got it for.


I'm gonna wait for Kurzweil's next big thing. And I have a feeling that Kronos isn't gonna be that tough a nut to crack.


Peace.
the true believer strikes again
:)
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EvilDragon
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Post by EvilDragon »

Do you have a problem with my HANDS ON EXPERIENCES, pal? I said the good, I said the bad, and I said the ugly, from my point of view. Did I perhaps do anything wrong?
Last edited by EvilDragon on Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
GregC
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Post by GregC »

EvilDragon wrote:Do you have a problem with my HANDS ON EXPERIENCES, pal? :evil:
you are a tad predictable.
:)
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Post by McHale »

EvilDragon wrote:However VB3 is IMHO still the best Hammond emulation there is
Yep. VB3 is fantastic. Well worth the price and then some...
Current Korg Gear: KRONOS 88 (4GB), M50-73 (PS mod), RADIAS-73, Electribe MX, Triton Pro (MOSS, SCSI, CF, 64MB RAM), SQ-64, DVP-1, MEX-8000, MR-1, KAOSSilator, nanoKey, nanoKontrol, 3x nanoPad 2, 3x DS1H, 7x PS1, FC7 (yes Korg, NOT Yamaha).
EvilDragon
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Post by EvilDragon »

GregC wrote:you are a tad predictable.
:)
Well at least I'm not making the stuff up, since I actually went out and tested Kronos, first hand? Say what you want, but I was prepared to go out, try Kronos, and stand there in awe at how amazing it sounds. Instead, I was left feeling so-so (mainly disappointed with certain samples and CX-3), and my GAS went away because there was lots of unexpectedly bad sounding stuff, IMO. So there.
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Post by GregC »

EvilDragon wrote:
GregC wrote:you are a tad predictable.
:)
Well at least I'm not making the stuff up, since I actually went out and tested Kronos, first hand? Say what you want, but I was prepared to go out, try Kronos, and stand there in awe at how amazing it sounds. Instead, I was left feeling so-so (mainly disappointed with certain samples and CX-3), and my GAS went away because there was lots of unexpectedly bad sounding stuff, IMO. So there.
gosh, kind of sensitive over there. Since you have made up your mind, will we still have the entertainment of your Kurzweil posts on the Kronos forum ?
:)
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Post by Synthoid »

EvilDragon wrote:There's one more thing I didn't like - even when I disabled drum tracks in Global, THE DRUMKIT PARTS WERE STILL TURNED ON IN COMBIS! Which means that I played whatever the combi it was, overlaid with those drums! Which is what I did NOT want to happen!
That's because Karma can also control drum sounds in a combi, which is independent of drum tracks. I would assume you can globally shut off Karma as well?
M3, Triton Classic, Radias, Motif XS, Alesis Ion
EvilDragon
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Post by EvilDragon »

GregC wrote:
EvilDragon wrote:
GregC wrote:you are a tad predictable.
:)
Well at least I'm not making the stuff up, since I actually went out and tested Kronos, first hand? Say what you want, but I was prepared to go out, try Kronos, and stand there in awe at how amazing it sounds. Instead, I was left feeling so-so (mainly disappointed with certain samples and CX-3), and my GAS went away because there was lots of unexpectedly bad sounding stuff, IMO. So there.
gosh, kind of sensitive over there. Since you have made up your mind, will we still have the entertainment of your Kurzweil posts on the Kronos forum ?
:)
A lot of people already commented on Kronos from their first hand experiences, and not all of them were 100% positive. So why pick on mine, solely because I mentioned that Kurzweil has done something better? It's true that I love my Kurzweil, but I went out to test Kronos without any bias whatsoever, and those were my conclusions, for better and for worse. Of course I would naturally compare Kronos to other keyboards that I've had experience with - isn't that a logical thing to do? Isn't that what discussion forums are for? So I ask you again, why pick on my comments, solely because I mentioned that Kurzweil still trumps Korg in some aspects?

Synthoid wrote:
EvilDragon wrote:There's one more thing I didn't like - even when I disabled drum tracks in Global, THE DRUMKIT PARTS WERE STILL TURNED ON IN COMBIS! Which means that I played whatever the combi it was, overlaid with those drums! Which is what I did NOT want to happen!
That's because Karma can also control drum sounds in a combi, which is independent of drum tracks. I would assume you can globally shut off Karma as well?
Thanks for mentioning this. The thought of doing so didn't strike my mind. Or wait, isn't there a "DT/Karma Off" switch in Global mode? Because that's what I DID toggle to disable the damn things, and the drums still played layered with other timbres...
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Post by McHale »

EvilDragon wrote:my GAS went away because there was lots of unexpectedly bad sounding stuff, IMO. So there.
So, despite the potential of the Kronos, you listened to a few presets and decided it wasn't that good?

Priceless...
Current Korg Gear: KRONOS 88 (4GB), M50-73 (PS mod), RADIAS-73, Electribe MX, Triton Pro (MOSS, SCSI, CF, 64MB RAM), SQ-64, DVP-1, MEX-8000, MR-1, KAOSSilator, nanoKey, nanoKontrol, 3x nanoPad 2, 3x DS1H, 7x PS1, FC7 (yes Korg, NOT Yamaha).
EvilDragon
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Post by EvilDragon »

It's not just the presets, I wasn't overjoyed with the data wheel, the plastic sides (awful looking), and small diameter knobs instead of endless rotaries kinda put me down, too. And of course that you'd be put down by unexpectedly bad sounding stuff? Stuff that belongs to $100 Casios rather than $/€3000 workstation? Yeah, of course you would, even though you know you can put your samples in, and edit the hell out of everything, first impression is just as important - and presets form that impression.

Well, I decided that I won't get it just yet, I didn't expel that possibility completely. Will probably need to try it out a few more times before reaching the final decision. But ultimately, yeah I wasn't as impressed as I expected I'd be after trying it out - there WAS some impressive sounding stuff in there (the synth engines!), but the rompler part was a letdown, and CX-3, too.

On paper, I was GASsing bad and wanting to buy Kronos ASAP. After a tryout, I'm much less eager spending some 3000€ on it, and so soon. It still might happen, but the chances are much less now. Ideally, I'd get it only for the synth engines. But even so, I'm gonna wait at least a year, year and a half. And then, if the next Kurzweil turns out to trump Kronos, which remains to be seen, arrive at my final decision.
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Post by McHale »

I think the data wheel feels OK. In fact, overall appearance I think it looks pretty sharp but I suppose any two people can look at the same thing and one person see a work of art while the other sees trash. I'm OK with that.

At first, I wasn't overwhelmed with greatness when I started playing mine but the more I played it the more things I found that were pretty outstanding. The thing is VERY deep and powerful. The presets are more of a hodge podge of every type of sound so any player can find some things that they can use as building blocks for their own sounds.

I'm pretty happy with it.
Current Korg Gear: KRONOS 88 (4GB), M50-73 (PS mod), RADIAS-73, Electribe MX, Triton Pro (MOSS, SCSI, CF, 64MB RAM), SQ-64, DVP-1, MEX-8000, MR-1, KAOSSilator, nanoKey, nanoKontrol, 3x nanoPad 2, 3x DS1H, 7x PS1, FC7 (yes Korg, NOT Yamaha).
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Post by aron »

Aha, the EvilDragon review!!!! :-)

>I had a solid session with Kronos 61 the other day with a friend of mine. In short, I will say that I was underwhelmed by strings (PC3 definitely trumps those from my first-hand perspective)

I agree.

>I very much dislike the CX-3 distortion in comparison with KB3 on Kurzweil, which is far better sounding now since OS 2.0. However VB3 is IMHO still the best Hammond emulation there is, and I have it on my V-Machine, so I'm not bothered by that.

Haven't had a chance to try the distortion in the Kronos. Maybe there are better distortions in the insert fx.

>I know a lot of people on this board won't agree with me, but I don't care, really. Kurzweil has managed to put better sounding orchestra samples in their 64 MB ROM than Kronos' 3 GB

I agree. I missed the PC3 strings last night.

>Synth engines are amazing, though. I wish I could get all of them in a separate box, without the other engines. One thing that I noticed, though, and I don't really like it, is that the resonance sweeps sounded virtually the same when bumped to the max, no matter which engine I was using.

I haven't noticed that, but maybe you didn't try the MS-20 enough. That is one crazy synth. I LOVE IT! Nasty sounds with minimal effort. Every time I demo it, people are blown away.

>SGX-1 and EP-1 are pretty darn good, though. I wouldn't use Japanese grand out of personal preferences, but German one is sounding quite nice.

We have a thread going - maybe the Japanese will be better in a band context.

>Physically, the data wheel is absolute crap, compared to the one on my PC3K8. That's no contest. Korg should fire the ones who thought this design was a good idea.

It works. It doesn't bother me. Plus there is the data slider, numeric keyboard and up and down buttons.

>Other than that, I feel that knobs are a bit too small, they could definitely be bigger in diameter.

Yes, thin and too tall. They look like they will break off.

>Sliders were very firm, though, solid response, a tiny bit sideways wiggle though. And oh for crying out loud, give me endless rotaries instead of fixed-range knobs already! It's a premium priced product, I want the goods.

Not if they are encoders like in my CS6X. These suckers failed me and I curse them every time I have to navigate using them.

>Plastic sides are looking very cheap, and I don't like them one bit. However overall construction does feel very solid, except the data wheel. It was very light, which is great if you're doing gigs often.

One thing that isn't mentioned much is the finish. It looks like it will scratch so easily. The PC3 got it right with that TOUGH finish. BTW: my plastic side on my PC3 cracked so it isn't that tough either.

Oh one more thing - black. Hmmm I have hardly used mine and last night I noticed all the dust on it. That black shows dust like no other keyboard….

>Oh, there's one more thing I must comment on. I absolutely dislike the drum tracks feature, it should be turned off globally by default.

I don't understand this one. In any case, I wish the drum tracks were a separate drum machine. Like totally separate. The programs and combinations can control it, but I wish it had its own button as it was a different mode. I love some of the patterns but I don't want to have to go into edit mode to get to it and it want it to act like a drum machine.

>and I'm talking about the $2600 preorder price some of you got it for.

I got it for way less than that and BTW I feel it was totally worth it. I paid $400 more than I did for my PC361 and it was worth it.

>I'm gonna wait for Kurzweil's next big thing. And I have a feeling that Kronos isn't gonna be that tough a nut to crack.

I already said, all Kurzweil needs to do is:

Improve the samples
Create new UIs over VAST
Maybe now improve their version of SST - believe me the Kronos is better right now.
IMPROVE their design. Cables with heavy ferrite, unsecured and then flimsy connector result in an unreliable keyboard.

That being said, they are taking YEARS to release a simple ROM bard expansion…. I have little faith in them releasing a new board a reachable price point - soon.

The short answer:

The Kronos has fun synthesizer engines that are easier to approach and use than the PC3. The EP are more responsive and more realistic. The controls are more easily assignable. The instrument overall sounds bigger and more present than the PC3. The MS-20 sounds like it is insane. The instrument is 3 or 4 pounds lighter. The display is great. The SST is better.

For live use - it's a toss up. The PC3's ability to mute without losing polyphony, the ability to layer tons of voices - more than the Jupiter, the ability to mix on the fly up to 9 voices - the incredible programs - which nail a lot of classic sounds and the similar SST feature make it a formidable live keyboard.

For my use, I'd rather spend my time programming on the Kronos. It's almost everything I have wanted in a modern synth. I wish it had the features that the PC3 offers me: breath controller input, mute without losing polyphony, WHEELS and that great big BLUE LED!
Korg Kronos, RD-88, Yamaha VL1, Deep Mind 6, Korg Kross, author of unrealBook for iPad.
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Post by burningbusch »

Here's some simple things I did running through those terrible string combis on the Kronos. All played in realtime.

Kronos Strings

Busch.
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