New Sound Libraries

[michelkeijzers]

Just FYI...$250 is a LOT for an expansion unless it's SUPER huge an all encompassing. That's what Roland charged for theirs because of the board+expensive ROM on them. This you would just download to a thumdrive of your own, right? Then put on the SSD? This should be something that's cheap...and why not open it to third party devs?

The drums and strings are the weakest part of the board, IMO...I kind of feel like it was intentional--to sell the expansions. But, that's the biz. I'll buy the drum and string...but, only if they're GREAT...go ahead and throw in a well programmed horn section card.

They did open it to third party.. Karo Sound is it.. and they are going to be priced More than $250 comparing to the prices on their Oasys libraries.

Maybe the physical cost are not much (even almost zero), but the major cost probably goes into designing/sampling time, which is very labour intensive.

[PianoManChuck]

Just FYI...$250 is a LOT for an expansion unless it's SUPER huge an all encompassing. That's what Roland charged for theirs because of the board+expensive ROM on them. This you would just download to a thumdrive of your own, right? Then put on the SSD? This should be something that's cheap...and why not open it to third party devs?

The drums and strings are the weakest part of the board, IMO...I kind of feel like it was intentional--to sell the expansions. But, that's the biz. I'll buy the drum and string...but, only if they're GREAT...go ahead and throw in a well programmed horn section card.

As with all sales, something is only worth what someone's willing to pay. I would pay that for a Bosendorfer piano library (its a lot cheaper than buying a real Bosendorfer).... but I don't think they released the price on that library yet. Bottom line is, if you really want it bad enough, you'll buy it one way or another. If you really feel that its overpriced, then you probably weren't that interested in the first place.

[sparkie]

Just FYI...$250 is a LOT for an expansion unless it's SUPER huge an all encompassing. That's what Roland charged for theirs because of the board+expensive ROM on them. This you would just download to a thumdrive of your own, right? Then put on the SSD? This should be something that's cheap...and why not open it to third party devs?

The drums and strings are the weakest part of the board, IMO...I kind of feel like it was intentional--to sell the expansions. But, that's the biz. I'll buy the drum and string...but, only if they're GREAT...go ahead and throw in a well programmed horn section card.

They did open it to third party.. Karo Sound is it.. and they are going to be priced More than $250 comparing to the prices on their Oasys libraries.

Maybe the physical cost are not much (even almost zero), but the major cost probably goes into designing/sampling time, which is very labour intensive.

No I disagree, others like Kid Nepro etc.. probably spend the same amount of time on their samples but dont charge nearly as much for theirs!

[jimknopf]

1. The only real "hole" in the vast amount of sound shaping possibilities in a Kronos are missing higher quality guitar/eguitar patches. Else it covers as much and more sonic ground than ANY present synth remotely does.

2. This means that critical discussions about expansion libraries are more or less obsolete. These expansion libraries are welcome addons, which make the most powerful present synth even more versatile. But there is no duty to buy any expansion, and most people will carefully choose what they want and need for their purposes and what not.

3. Nobody has to care about prices. If something is not worth it's price for me, I don't buy it. On the other hand, IF I want it and am ready to pay the price, it is of no interest to me, if anybody else finds the price too high, too low or whatnot: absoluteley irrelevant.

4. Concerning Karo libraries: nobody can seriously compare a huge orchestra library (you have to book the musicians to get the samples) with sampling a synth sound with two notes per octave. And the last to disagree about that, would probably be Karo and Kid Nepro. Different jobs, different prices, plus the freedom to make your own price and see if it works.

5. One of the huge advantages of the Kronos over something like the JP-80 is, that it is an open system which encourages the production of third party libraries. On a JP80, you can't even exchange any user sounds in any normal way (pen and paper comes to mind, like I had it with Fantom G effects), not speaking of possibly available additional RAM of 1-2 Gb like in the Kronos, plus the possibility of third party SSD streaming sounds. Add the Karma stuff with the already available software editor against the lame JP80 pseudo-arpeggiator, and you know the advantage of an anytime easily upgradable hardware/software system over a closed hardware system depending on (so far) rare major updates, if they appear at all, and don't stop in halfbaked status in midst of a lifecycle, like with the Fantom G.

I bet that the obvious envy towards the power of this open Kronos system, and the fact of fast availability of MANY expansion libraries so soon (in all areas from patches for 9 engines, over sample instrument libraries up to drums and drumgrooves) will provoke all sorts of funny comments from people without a Kronos. Isn't it obvious, why?

[Bruce Lychee]

Jim, while I respect your opinion, I think there are many holes in the Kronos that could use some serious updating. I welcome new libraries, but I seriously hope they put some effort into their acoustic emulations to make them worthy of the rest of the Kronos. More of the same will just be a waste of money IMO.

It would be nice to have a file sharing system for the Jupiter, but the Jupiter relies on physical and behavioral modeling to produce sounds with no velocity switching. You can't use a sampler for that. What I would like to see is more editable modeled parameters for every instrument like you see on the SN pianos.

[jimknopf]

But Bruce, where do you see the holes?

I won't quarrel with you that some older HD-1 stuff could use refreshing and updating (single presets), but I see no sound area besides the one mentioned above, where I could not achieve convincing results.

[Bruce Lychee]

But Bruce, where do you see the holes?

I won't quarrel with you that some older HD-1 stuff could use refreshing and upfdating, but I see no sound area besides the one mentioned above, where I could not achieve convincing results.

It is just my opinion, but outside of the ethnic strings and keyboard emulations, I'm not very impressed with any of the acoustic emulations. I will say they have a nice tone in many cases, but it is difficult to use them in a very expressive and dynamic way, especially in real time. I actually like the electric guitars.

[jimknopf]

OK, then we have vastly different evaluations of what is on board.

The factory electric gutars (and I mean all not user programmed) are really terrible from my view, really kind of 1995 GM sound level.

But else many instruments are much better IMO than the general Korg reputation in these areas. Think of the excellent brass sounds which Busch has demoed (at least as good as the Yamahas which could be heard in direct comparison).

In the Draganici demos, just to name one example, there also were examples of natural and ethnic patches which sound very well in my ears.

All in all I can use more sounds, in almost all sound categories, from the Kronos, than I ever could with my previous synths, up to the Fantom G.

[Bruce Lychee]

I was a very unhappy owner of the G.

Actually, I was referring specifically to lead guitar sounds. I was able to get a few that worked nicely for me on the Kronos.

I really enjoy Burningbusch's recordings, but for starters he used a breath controller, which I have found impossible to get. Secondly, the expressive qualities of the breath controller are great, but I see limits to what can be done with the underlying sounds because they seem limited in capturing the full dynamic range and nuances of the instrument.

I don't want to turn this into a Jupiter thread so I'll just focus on what I think the Kronos needs, which is expanded articulations that can be activated via keyswitch. The Kronos uses different underlying technology than the Jupiter so I don't expect it to be able to do what the Jupiter does. Nevertheless, I do feel it should integrate features of the best software sample based libraries out there.

[jimknopf]

While I certainly like some kinds of articulation scripts, I don't miss too much of that in the Kronos. Busch posted a very well done brass patch version without breath controller, by the way, and these sounds work well enough from my view.

So I'm very much looking forward to the new patches, grooves and libraries, because I'm sure there's something for me in between.

Some demos, even limited, would really be fine so short before publication, just to get a first impression.

[popmann]

Serious holes. Strings...a handful of what's there is great, but it's not enough in the way of articulations to handle traditional arrangements. Drums...the snares and toms are not very good-and the kicks, while nice sounding are super processed. Horns...also not much variation-but, that's relatively immature in the greater sampling world, so I'm not convinced that's even as much an omission as the two.

I would also like to see the clav samples be worked into the ep1, with more modeled noises/release samples...but, that's getting nitpicky.

Guitars, I've never heard better, but a lousy player will eat a sample alive, so I don't see guitar samples being important...I will be removing all mine from the start up load.

I went looking in the extras last night hoping to find more drums/strings/horns...not a lot. Some woodwinds, I guess...but, not of the level I'd like to see.

[NuSkoolTone]

OK, then we have vastly different evaluations of what is on board.

The factory electric gutars (and I mean all not user programmed) are really terrible from my view, really kind of 1995 GM sound level.

But else many instruments are much better IMO than the general Korg reputation in these areas. Think of the excellent brass sounds which Busch has demoed (at least as good as the Yamahas which could be heard in direct comparison).

In the Draganici demos, just to name one example, there also were examples of natural and ethnic patches which sound very well in my ears.

All in all I can use more sounds, in almost all sound categories, from the Kronos, than I ever could with my previous synths, up to the Fantom G.

Wow, I said nearly the same thing concerning the guitars VERBATIM in another thread! The brass overall is as good as Yamaha's, but it's a LOT more work so far on the Kronos. Korg seems to have a better Trumpet, and Yamaha has a better Sax. The Sax on the Kronos still has that hard, digital GM thing going on with an aspect to the sound. I'd really like to see a pop/motown horn library programmed for the Kronos, becuase most of the samples ARE there but the current presets are more classical in nature and just don't have the cut or punch needed with a band.

Though once you get digging with the Kronos, there's just so much you can do. It's a bit of work, but at least rewarding. Nothing worse than to bust your butt and it's only marginally better!

[burningbusch]

I really enjoy Burningbusch's recordings, but for starters he used a breath controller, which I have found impossible to get.

Thought this was pretty amazing. Breath Controller on ebay going for over $600.

BC

Glad I've three or four of them laying around.

Busch.

[popmann]

This is nitpicky, I know, because they're going to charge whatever they charge, but the thing is--what I said above-the cost should be far cheaper than any "synth expansions" we've ever seen. Why? Two factors: the aforementioned lack of any hardware costs (ie-no card, CPU, rom-whatever)...but the second is why software has become so good AND cheap--disk streaming means that for emulation intended samples, there's a TON LESS development time and expertise. You can effectively sample as many velocity layers and for as long (time) as it takes to get the instrument right. No more "musically faking" it with loops and creatively velocity filters to make up for only having a few dynamic layers and really limited ROM.

And it appears some are third party libs "ported" and rebranded. Which means the r&d/sampling cost was paid for long ago.

We could use more variation in the drums (particularly snares and toms)...they could do a little better with the horns (from a pop/r&b bent) and disk streaming should get a bit better solo strings. I also think it would be interesting use of karma to work on a kind of string ensemble divisi and legato movement. also, the vintage d6 samples could use having some modeled release/noises--maybe shoehorn it into the ep1 EX engine.

But, don't take these suggestions the wrong way...there are some really nice drum, horn, and string sounds there now. I just think they've SO got the piano/EP/organ/synth thing down, that I just feel like it would be the best board ever made if they could expand on those few places...

[aron]

Breath Controller on ebay going for over $600.

If I can get some time available - I will be making some. I'm pretty sure I can get it to work. It will interesting to see how it compares with the real thing.