Sticking my neck out on a limb... but oh well

[Sparker]

X-Trade: I don't understand what you're saying. What two things are playing together?

Re: Different drum patterns (GE's?) for each scene: With KARMA running you can make up a combi just consisting of four different drum modules. That way you can set up to four different kits each playing a different Drum GE, with eight scene variations for each module and select between each (or several at a time) using the KARMA 'scenes' page tab, (as well as having the drum track playing in synch (when on or off), plus using multiple drum patterns triggered from RPPR when in SEQ mode; as RPPR keys don't send to the KARMA engine).

If you have the Kronos KARMA software this increases to ten modules with 16 (or 32) scene variations.

I tend to think of the RPPR patterns as being the same as ARP patterns which you can edit or write yourself and then chain together for triggering by assigning subsequent patterns to adjacent keys, though this will reduce the playing range of the keyboard for the timbre on the global midi channel.

[QuiRobinez]

It would be VERY useful if we could change drum patterns on the fly using the Karma scenes or some other technique other than RPRR or leaving the drum pattern setup open. When I had a Motif the ability to completely change drum arps at the touch of a button was one of the features I liked best. Even though Karma is great the straight up drum patterns are a very welcome addition over the Oasys. For that matter the additional drums in the Kronos beyond the Oasys is an amazing improvement by itself.

i have a motif and there you can indeed assign different arps to a button. But you really don't need that when you use KARMA, every scene can change the current drum patterns. That's almost the same the Motif does because on the motif most patterns are variations of the first pattern.

The Kronos can do much more when you know how to program the KARMA drum module. You have multiple buttons to turn on or off the separate elements in a drum, you can change the patterns, the timings, the swing feel and it's even possible to mix drumsounds from multiple drumkits in that pattern.

For instance you could use the Kick of the 808 and use the percussion of the brazilian percussion kit and the snares and hats of the power drumkit. and that can all be switched on the touch of a button or a scene change.

This goes way further then the conventional arp patterns selection from a button on the motif. It's also more complicated to learn, but it's worth the time to learn these kind of KARMA tricks. Maybe i will do a KARMA drumprogramming tutorial in the future. If more people are interested in these kind of things then maybe it's interesting to spent some time on that tutorial for me.

But bottom line, you can really change the drums with each scene switch.

[Lou]

Maybe i will do a KARMA drumprogramming tutorial in the future. If more people are interested in these kind of things then maybe it's interesting to spent some time on that tutorial for me.

Qui, If you are willing and asking, please do put this on your list of upcoming videos, thanks!
As mentioned in a post by Rob F, (Not Quoted) users tend to override parameter changes in large values and then get lost as the Karma module runs wild.. and he is right, it's very easy to become victim of this.
Most of the time you can get very pleasing drum grooves by making subtle changes to the right elements. Karma drums are extremely powerful when you know what to reach for. I myself scratch the surface.

[RonF]

To the OP...you describe an awesome level of "automation" when recording, latching the drum track and KARMA sections on and off in real time. You can also do the same with individual KARMA modules A thru D, for even more control.

To Lou....you nailed my quote just about perfectly. The *resolution* of KARMA parameters have a varying number of *Steps* (ranging from just a few steps, up to thousands of steps, depending on the parameter)......and depending on the parameter, there are distinctly different "things" assigned to each step. Unlike the tone adjust parameters which are more conventional, and sweep through a range of "intensity" (such as filter cut off, res, EQ values, etc.), many of the KARMA parameters (but not all....some indeed do still sweep a range of intensity) merely *step* through a selection of varying patterns, or timing shifts, etc. So by "sweeping" rapidly through THIS range of parameters, you simply miss the the various selections available to you. Its more like a "wave table" where there are a selection of 128 individual waves, and you can use each one to source a totally different "sound". Similarly, you might find 128 different "timing patterns" or "variations" within the range of a KARMA parameter......you should check them all out, lest you miss the goodness of each. This being the case....the "variation" (different parameters "house" different things) in slot 1 may have no direct correlation to the "variation" in slot 97......so sweeping broadly from 1 to 97 may derive entirely non-musical (or nonsensical) results (especially in real time when the groove is going and you want logical and musical transitions). Rather, the "variations" closest to each other *tend* to relate more similarly to each other. Therefore....baby steps is best when making *real-time* KARMA parameter adjustments. I suggest touching the parameter on the touchscreen, and then using the inc/dec buttons to more diligently "explore". Of course, there are no rules here....but many assume KARMA requires a degree in rocket science when they first grab a few hardware sliders and "sweep away"....only to turn the groove into mush. Really, its just about understanding what each parameter contains in its "steps".

[Sparker]

Addendum to RonF: The first 4 sliders and switches in KARMA 2 (used in the Kronos) tend to be allocated to swing/pattern/duration/velocity and are reasonably independent of each other. With the drum tracks the sliders 3 & 4 tend to govern randomisation parameters.

The sliders and switches 5-8 tend to be interconnected (that is they affect each other or need one turning on for the others to work) and cover parameters such as repetition value, number of repeats and repeat transposition(s).

Likewise as you say making small incremental changes (look at the value changing for the KARMA value and not the slider midi value) and slowly exploring what they all do is more productive than just wildly making slider changes on-the-fly. IMO figuring out what values to set the sliders to in order to get the beat/pattern you best like and then saving/assigning each of these to a scene is the way to go.

Having multiple scenes in KARMA 2 was to my mind one of the best improvements over KARMA 1 which only had 2 scenes available.

[Sparker]

I've just worked through all the drum GE's and all but 2 are set up as I described.

Additionally if you have set up a combi you will have Master Layer controls to which you can then assign extra drum parameters. I'm currently investigating how/if I can change from 4/4 time to 2/4 time so that I can have a half measure break at the end of a series of 4/4 measures.

[Lou]

IMO figuring out what values to set the sliders to in order to get the beat/pattern you best like and then saving/assigning each of these to a scene is the way to go.

Yep, this is pretty much what I've been doing. I use to go GE shopping and spend way to much time, now I grab what's relative and play with the parameters.
Still need to be a little more proficient with this though..

[X-Trade]

X-Trade: I don't understand what you're saying. What two things are playing together?

Re: Different drum patterns (GE's?) for each scene: With KARMA running you can make up a combi just consisting of four different drum modules. That way you can set up to four different kits each playing a different Drum GE, with eight scene variations for each module and select between each (or several at a time) using the KARMA 'scenes' page tab, (as well as having the drum track playing in synch (when on or off), plus using multiple drum patterns triggered from RPPR when in SEQ mode; as RPPR keys don't send to the KARMA engine).

If you have the Kronos KARMA software this increases to ten modules with 16 (or 32) scene variations.

I tend to think of the RPPR patterns as being the same as ARP patterns which you can edit or write yourself and then chain together for triggering by assigning subsequent patterns to adjacent keys, though this will reduce the playing range of the keyboard for the timbre on the global midi channel.

Yes, I understand that. And I'm a big fan of RPPR too.
My point is that korg put in a dedicated 'drum track', that is disappointingly static compared to Karma. Whilst Karma drums can be cool and very useful, it just seems wasteful to not use the drum track if you want something simpler, in a combi. Except it will be the same drum pattern all the way through. So Karma drums it is then! I just think the two separate systems (Karma & DT) would make a lot more sense if there was even this tiny amount of communication between the two,

Indeed Karma's biggest downfall in Korg's instruments is that it is not greatly integrated - Korg has 'dmod' and 'AMS' yet Karma has to have its own systems to do more or less the same job, it's not consistent from a UI or technical point of view.

I do love working with Karma though.

[Lou]

Except it will be the same drum pattern all the way through.

If you are talking about playing live, well then yes because to much button pushing.
But recording wise you can use as many different drum track grooves within a track, without using Karma and have a good percussion track.

[Sparker]

X-Trade: Thank you for clearing that up for me.

I find the drum track use depends on what I'm doing.
If I'm just playing around with synths/piano's, etc then I find it useful as a ready made drum click track.

Sometimes I may want to use it for running some precussion or a particular tom-tom pattern or snare roll over a KARMA drum track and other times I may want to keep a steady bass drum/snare pattern going while using KARMA for synths/pads and variable precussion.

Yes it is limited, however I like to see it more as an adjustable wrench than a spanner, (while remembering that's it's not a hammer).