New Kronos features for older Kronos?

LivePsy · Post by **LivePsy** » Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:11 pm

Okay, Okay, I'm now a fan of OS 3! The sum of the parts is getting bigger and bigger as all the improvements are announced. Some wonderful improvements. What are other workstation manufacturers thinking? No one is coming close to Korg and Korg just got further ahead with OS 3...

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GregC · Post by **GregC** » Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:16 pm

LivePsy wrote:Okay, Okay, I'm now a fan of OS 3! The sum of the parts is getting bigger and bigger as all the improvements are announced. Some wonderful improvements. What are other workstation manufacturers thinking? No one is coming close to Korg and Korg just got further ahead with OS 3...

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what took you so long ?

j/k around

LivePsy · Post by **LivePsy** » Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:38 pm

I shudda watched the videos!

danatkorg · Post by **danatkorg** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 1:14 am

EJ2 wrote:Fantastic update, Dan. Often I have wanted to edit various programs within a combination I was developing. This is great news. However, will the edited program(s) be specific to the combi once I save that combi? In other words will the original factory preset remain unaltered in it's original program location? Or must I save the altered/edited program to a user bank location as well so as not to overwrite any factory preset?

No change re Program storage; if you edit the Program, you need to store it. (Storing Programs in Combis would require a lot more memory.)

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 11:07 am

danatkorg wrote:No change re Program storage; if you edit the Program, you need to store it. (Storing Programs in Combis would require a lot more memory.)

Please consider the next ideas:
- Make the number of programs per bank variable (e.g. bank U-A000 contains 50 programs, bank U-B 350 etc). Programs can be deleted/inserted making the bank size bigger/lower.

- Possibility to store programs inside combis. Here are two possibilities: per timbre using a program can be done in two ways:
- Use a program from one of the banks (thus, a reference, like now).
- Use a program inside a combi, independent on the program banks.

To overcome memory problems, say there are like 2,000 'slots' for programs. These slots can be either be used by regular program banks or as 'in-contained programs' inside a combi. This removes the memory problem, and keeps all flexibility.

Only disadvantage: it will probably be a lot of work to design.
Something to consider for a (far) future?

EJ2 · Post by **EJ2** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 3:41 pm

danatkorg wrote:
EJ2 wrote:Fantastic update, Dan. Often I have wanted to edit various programs within a combination I was developing. This is great news. However, will the edited program(s) be specific to the combi once I save that combi? In other words will the original factory preset remain unaltered in it's original program location? Or must I save the altered/edited program to a user bank location as well so as not to overwrite any factory preset?
No change re Program storage; if you edit the Program, you need to store it. (Storing Programs in Combis would require a lot more memory.)

Thanks for the quick reply, Dan. That's what I figured. I learned way back cutting my programming teeth on the old red Karma workstation NOT TO MESS WITH THE FACTORY PRESETS, unless I stored any edited version in user banks locations instead of overwriting the original. Without this caution, factory and third party combis using preset programs will be compromised.

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 4:15 pm

And don't forget you can do a lot with Tone Adjust inside a combi.

StephenKay · Post by **StephenKay** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 5:43 pm

michelkeijzers wrote:- Possibility to store programs inside combis. Here are two possibilities: per timbre using a program can be done in two ways:
- Use a program from one of the banks (thus, a reference, like now).
- Use a program inside a combi, independent on the program banks.

To overcome memory problems, say there are like 2,000 'slots' for programs. These slots can be either be used by regular program banks or as 'in-contained programs' inside a combi. This removes the memory problem, and keeps all flexibility.

This is precisely how Yamaha does it in the XS/XF-based products.

In Song/Pattern Mode, you have 256 "Mix Voice" slots. In a particular Song, there are 16 parts (i.e. 16 timbres). You can edit the Voice (program) used by that part *completely*, from right inside the Song, and once you've done so, you can store it as one of up to 16 Mix Voices for that song, in one of the 256 Mix Voice slots. So one Song might have 2 Mix Voices, another might have none, another might have 10 - whatever, up to the theoretical limit of 256. I use this feature a lot in my KARMA Motif Software voicing.

Personally, I don't think 256 is enough, but this concept could work equally well for Korg combis and songs. Instead of trying to provide full memory for 16 possibly edited programs in each combi/song, you have a global "pool" of program slots that can be used as required, which can be backed up and managed as a single chunk of data, and is a finite, known quantity.

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 5:49 pm

Don't you effectively have nearly 3000 of these "mix voices" in Kronos? I'm not sure I'm grasping the difference.

danatkorg · Post by **danatkorg** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 6:42 pm

SanderXpander wrote:Don't you effectively have nearly 3000 of these "mix voices" in Kronos? I'm not sure I'm grasping the difference.

+1. My thought exactly.

Zeroesque · Post by **Zeroesque** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:22 pm

danatkorg wrote:No change re Program storage; if you edit the Program, you need to store it. (Storing Programs in Combis would require a lot more memory.)

I may be old-school, but this traditional setup is my preference. I don't want to have to think about different "branches" of my programs in combis.

StephenKay · Post by **StephenKay** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:38 pm

SanderXpander wrote:Don't you effectively have nearly 3000 of these "mix voices" in Kronos? I'm not sure I'm grasping the difference.

The difference is - it doesn't touch your program banks. At all. The edited programs "stay with" the songs/combis. No need to tie up a Program location in a Program Bank for one edit you did one time for some song, only to be wondering later why do I have this program here - when you're no longer even loading the song.

Furthermore, I could supply a combi or song to another user with edited voices, without having to touch his program banks. Which is what I do with Yamaha Songs - I have edited mix voices in them to customize the sound, and yet I don't have to overwrite the User's Program Banks.

LivePsy · Post by **LivePsy** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:44 pm

Tell the mixing desk guy to fix it with inserts and FX because you've only got a Korg

Kidding, Kidding!

A board without presets and you suddenly feel very very alone. But in a song, why not have totally unique programs? Its an old dilemma but with thousands of blank prog slots in the Kronos, just leave a trail of messy undocumented patches and call yourself an artist.

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SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:49 pm

StephenKay wrote:
SanderXpander wrote:Don't you effectively have nearly 3000 of these "mix voices" in Kronos? I'm not sure I'm grasping the difference.
The difference is - it doesn't touch your program banks. At all. The edited programs "stay with" the songs/combis. No need to tie up a Program location in a Program Bank for one edit you did one time for some song, only to be wondering later why do I have this program here - when you're no longer even loading the song.

Furthermore, I could supply a combi or song to another user with edited voices, without having to touch his program banks. Which is what I do with Yamaha Songs - I have edited mix voices in them to customize the sound, and yet I don't have to overwrite the User's Program Banks.

Isn't that just a difference of mindset rather than practical use? Yamaha has (as far as I know) far fewer "user writable" locations. So you could dedicate two banks (to equal your 256) purely to sequencer/combi sounds and put whatever you need there. Then you still have over 2500 user writable locations for your other programs. As far as I understand you, if you were to send a song (with sounds) to someone, you would overwrite his "mix voices" when he loads the song.

I don't think there is a real difference except in perceived limitations. If Korg would cut off two banks and reserve them for song/combi sounds, wouldn't you end up with the same thing?

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:51 pm

Exactly.