Summer NAMM next week

[michelkeijzers]

Or a new option for the Kronos:

A real Korg Magnifying glass to be attached on the Kronos LCD screen (including optional light).

[Gargamel314]

I've heard the Oasys tech was started way back in the early 90's

That's absolutely correct. Here's a photo of the original Oasys that was never commercially available:






Here's some interesting reading about early Oasys development as well:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/nov05/a ... goasys.htm

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1995_ar ... oasys.html

http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index. ... org-oasys/

I would LOVE to hear what the original OASYS sounded like. Are there any demos of it available anywhere? Think Korg kept the prototypes around for sentiment? lol

[Broadwave]

So, after all that postulating, there was in fact... zilch.

No Kronos beater from Kurzweil or Yamaha, Casio didn't even come close

[aron]

I may be in the minority but I don't think Yamaha has to make a multi-synthesis keyboard. They have already been doing this for a while - from the SY77 to the EX5 to the later cards inside the Motif/S90.

I think they learned a while ago that what they really need to do is just make a keyboard that is well made, has top notch sounds that are useful and looks good.

Yamaha always had nice synth engines, but poor presets. The writing was on the wall long ago, when people were not really editing. I'm not sure much of that has changed - maybe it has, but in any case, let's say that Yamaha comes out with a Motif with 256 to 512 notes polyphony; I think that would really make one big fat sounding keyboard and keep them in the race without having to create some sort of multi-synthesis keyboard.

Not everyone needs analog simulations to be true VA. In addition, it seems like a lot of people think that the old analogs sound much better than simulations.... I'm not that sure it matters to the people that listen to the music.

I think (maybe incorrectly) that if you make a keyboard that has great sounds - give people useful editing operations, lots of polyphony and a easy UI for navigation and you have a winner.

[EXer]

Last night I had the opportunity to play the Mox 6 , I tell you OMG it is a extremelly light keyboard however the keys are the same as the cheapo PSR 423. I had the opportunite to play them side by side for more than 2 hours. The keybed on both are the same, because the mox has 8 elements in most sounds it doesn't quite feel that you are playing in the same cheapo key as a PSr single sampled.

The MOX is exactly the synth engine and the ROM of a MOTIF XS in a cheap package and with half its polyphony.

It is a very interesting instrument for an amateur musician who wants the (excellent) sounds of a Yamaha high end workstation but cannot afford one.

[edit] wrong quote (sorry, sani!)

[jahrome]

Last night I had the opportunity to play the Mox 6 , I tell you OMG it is a extremelly light keyboard however the keys are the same as the cheapo PSR 423. I had the opportunite to play them side by side for more than 2 hours. The keybed on both are the same, because the mox has 8 elements in most sounds it doesn't quite feel that you are playing in the same cheapo key as a PSr single sampled.

The MOX is exactly the synth engine and the ROM of a MOTIF XS in a cheap package and with half its polyphony.

It is a very interesting instrument for an amateur musician who wants the (excellent) sounds of a Yamaha high end workstation but cannot afford one.

So cheaper synths are only for amateurs?

[EXer]

Nobody wrote "only". Please read the posts more carefully.

[sani]

EXer, you have quoted completely wrong, putting words into my mouth which I didn't say at all. Please look back on page 4 what I actually said.

[Vlad_77]

Hi Aron,

First off I enjoy your posts!

I like what you said about Yamaha not having to make a multi-engine synth. I would add one more point: Yamaha is in the enviable position where Motifs are HIGHLY visible. Even on their promo videos Yamaha states that it is important to their existing user base to have the sounds they are accustomed to. Yamaha states further and quite honestly that each Motif builds on its predecessor. I am not a Yamaha fanboy - in fact I only own one Yamaha: the old TG-33 which IS still fun

Yamaha has a secure place in the industry and I would think that the philosophy of "it if aint broke, don't fix it" applies quite nicely. In magic we have an equally apropos maxim: "don't run if you're not being chased." With Yamaha's position in the music industry, I really would wager that the Kronos ,Fantom G, and Kurz PC3K are of no concern to Yamaha.

It's been interesting to see more and more favorable reactions to Roland's new performance synth. Ironically, there is STILL more discussion of it here than at Roland Clan!

The perceived dark horse, Kurzweil, is the one to watch, but not as a "Kronos killer." I would wager that within a year to two at most, Kurzweil is going to release a monster workstation that has a more intuitive UI and a new set of keymaps. They have already proved that they have the multi-synthesis thing down, but, as a fellow PC3 owner, I would suggest that Kurzweil's power is hampered by the byzantine interface and insanely hard learning curve for deep synthesis programming. Kurzweil is in the best position to answer Kronos. Pardon the pun, but with regard to Kronos and Kurzweil, time will tell.

Ahimsa,
Vlad

[RonF]

Hi Aron,

First off I enjoy your posts!

I like what you said about Yamaha not having to make a multi-engine synth. I would add one more point: Yamaha is in the enviable position where Motifs are HIGHLY visible. Even on their promo videos Yamaha states that it is important to their existing user base to have the sounds they are accustomed to. Yamaha states further and quite honestly that each Motif builds on its predecessor. I am not a Yamaha fanboy - in fact I only own one Yamaha: the old TG-33 which IS still fun

Yamaha has a secure place in the industry and I would think that the philosophy of "it if aint broke, don't fix it" applies quite nicely. In magic we have an equally apropos maxim: "don't run if you're not being chased." With Yamaha's position in the music industry, I really would wager that the Kronos ,Fantom G, and Kurz PC3K are of no concern to Yamaha.

It's been interesting to see more and more favorable reactions to Roland's new performance synth. Ironically, there is STILL more discussion of it here than at Roland Clan!

The perceived dark horse, Kurzweil, is the one to watch, but not as a "Kronos killer." I would wager that within a year to two at most, Kurzweil is going to release a monster workstation that has a more intuitive UI and a new set of keymaps. They have already proved that they have the multi-synthesis thing down, but, as a fellow PC3 owner, I would suggest that Kurzweil's power is hampered by the byzantine interface and insanely hard learning curve for deep synthesis programming. Kurzweil is in the best position to answer Kronos. Pardon the pun, but with regard to Kronos and Kurzweil, time will tell.

Ahimsa,
Vlad

For the record....I also enjoy Aron's posts!

Vlad....I agree with several of your points (and Aron's). Yamaha is huge company. They do not have so much 'riding' on any keyboard product as Korg, or Roland (Korg more than Roland). They do not need to directly "compete" when they have a stable and dedicated user base. They have established Motif as a hallmark of the music industry, both Pro and semi-pro/enthusiast. I don't see Yamaha doing anything *in reaction to* Korg or the Kronos. I do see them advancing their Flagship keyboard on their own agenda and timetable. I expect we'll see interesting things to come based on new technology.....but for now the XF is a great product which sells well.

I too am also shocked to find so much more activity, passion, discussion, interest, motion on KF than on RolandClan over the JP-80, and more. Not sure what to make out of this......but I noticed the SAME relative thing when the GAIA was released.....very low activity on that forum too during its launch.

[aron]

Ron,

I am sad that Yamaha decided to abandon Physical Modeling as on the VL1. I am also sad that they are giving up on the breath controller and alternate forms of input.

I'm sure I was one of the first people complaining about the lack of the breath controller and I am sure it was a reason why I bought my PC3.

At the same time, I truly believe that most live players just want a keyboard that sounds great with usable programs. The better the presets sound, the more it will be used. I guess Yamaha hit the sweet spot with that. I surely remember when it was not the case.

[Chriskk]

I don't see Yamaha doing anything *in reaction to* Korg or the Kronos.

Now that CPU processing power is relatively cheap, Yamaha could certainly create a monster synth consisting of the VL-1, SY77, SY22, AN1x, CP1 & Motif engines. They won't. From the view point of Yamaha, the synth market probably isn't one of their top prorities. They sell a ton of guitars/basses, clavinovas, upright and grand pianos, other acoustic instruments, etc. I'm sure Yamaha guitars/basses outsell their synths by a huge margin.

[PinkFloydDudi]

So cheaper synths are only for amateurs?

How many professionals do you see going around with cheap synths? As with any profession, if it is indeed your profession, you typically spend money on a quality instrument to perform your trade. There are certainly always exceptions. But if I showed you a casio and asked whose keyboard do you think this is, I'm doubting "rick wakeman" would be your first guess!



As to the yamaha thing - people are saying if its not broke don't fix it - that didn't work very well for places like Kodak, who decided that they were fine in their market.

Yamaha is fine with creating quality built keyboards with their specific great sounds - until another manufacturer comes along and creates that same thing, only with more features.
Sure, not everyone needs a VA engine in their keyboard (I'm one of those people) - but like hell I'm going to turn it down as an added feature!

Yamaha was sitting nicely when their sounds were superior to most other manufacturers (I'd put Kurz in their to share that title). But as other manufacturers catch up on those sounds, and even surpass them (such as the pianos on the kronos) - Yamaha will have to do something to compete.

Lets face it, staying with a manufacturer when another is superior in nearly every aspect is pretty much the definition of a fanboi!

My guess is that Yamaha, Roland and even Kurz will have to do something to compete with the Kronos. Cause even if the Kronos doesn't take them out of the market share - the "Kronos 2" likely will if they don't step up to the plate.

[RonF]

I truly believe that most live players just want a keyboard that sounds great with usable programs. The better the presets sound, the more it will be used. I guess Yamaha hit the sweet spot with that. I surely remember when it was not the case.

For the masses of buyers....this statement is exactly true, aron. And THIS is where Yamaha pitches their tent. Some of us "synth nuts" have different views....but we represent a very small fraction of the buying public.

[michelkeijzers]

For me as someone who uses keyboards mainly live, the sound is the most important and after that the ease of making layers and being flexible with controller/programming setup including layering etc.