What direction should Kronos take?

[NuSkoolTone]

I see a lot of criticism here and personally I think it's a bit much. Honestly, who gives two cares what "Piano World" thinks of the Kronos Keybed? I sure don't! Never even heard of it and I've been playing reading professional keyboard mags for 25+ years. I think the Kronos keybed is a GREAT compromise between a semi and full weighted keybed. As long as the triggering is solid (Which so far it has been for me) I'm cool with it. I don't WANT a sluggish heavy keybed, cause when I play organ/leads nothing sucks more!

So let's try to be positive shall we? How about we be appreciative of all the hard work that HAS been done since the Kronos release? The User SSD streaming, the FTP and network, the additional program banks...

I think what it is with the Kronos is we all have imaginations and visions of what it COULD BE because since it is largely software based gives it so much growth potential.

Here's what I'd like to see:

-I'll hop on the bandwagon and would like to see an improved sequencer. The more I dig in to this aspect of the Kronos, The more I scratch my head at the limitations. The M3 Expanded would be a great start. Better yet, the Krome?

-For a lack of a better term, I'd like to see some UI improvements to make programming/working less "clinical". I like having access to these parameters, but sometimes I'd just like to make some tweaks and go. Sometimes the UI gets in the way for this.

-Some templates in the sound engines for certain type of sounds. For example a starting point to do an "Oberheim" patch in AL-1

-More program banks. As insane as it sounds, the Kronos is capable of so many things the current amount isn't enough! I don't know the data management structure of the Kronos, but to quote my request on the wish list:

"It would be truly a TREAT to have the user banks expanded to:
U-AA, U-AB, U-AC, U-AD, U-AE, U-AF, U-AG
U-BA, U-BB, U-BC, U-BD, U-BE, U-BF, U-BG
U-CA, U-CB, U-CC, U-CD, U-CE, U-CF, U-CG
U-DA, U-DB, U-DC, U-DD, U-DE, U-DF, U-DG
U-EA, U-EB, U-EC, U-ED, U-EE, U-EF, U-EG
U-FA, U-FB, U-FC, U-FD, U-FE, U-FF, U-FG
U-GA, U-GB, U-GC, U-GD, U-GE, U-GF, U-GG

For an additional 42 banks. We'd be able to access them with hardware buttons and I don't think it would be too confusing. Assuming Korg's architecture would allow for it, I think this should be doable."

And a dream come true! It might look Crazy, but I'd USE them!

-Better/new IFX. Some of them are just really dated and sound it. Especially the distortions, notably on the CX-3 as well.

-An editor that's useful and can scale to a LARGE MONITOR!

-A way to Organize Drum Track Patterns into MEANINGFUL categories! Also more utilities to edit/rename/manage them.

-Seamless Drums as an option when changing patches.

-Better support for reading Akai partitions

-Gigasampler Format Support

-More ways to switch/control articulations for samples even within the oscillators.

-And here's the last bit which is a bit of a pipe dream but hey while I'm DREAMING: 3rd Party Support! Imagine if we could get a ventilator as an IFX? How many people would even be willing to PAY for it?

The last part is as a programmer is once the Kronos is no longer supported to release whatever source possible to allow us that program to implement new features or personal tweaks without infringing on Korg's IP. Not forgetting a copy of already compiled libraries in case we want to revert or screw up!

[BobTheDog]

Good post that one.

For programming the Kronos I would add to that list.

1. ability to edit programs in combis while the combi is playing. This would make the Kronos much more useful as a multi timbral device from another sequencer.


2. A mode where there is auto mapping of the physical knobs to important controls on each 'screen page' while editing. The V-Synth does this nicely by placing a little number next to the control on the screen that shows you which actual knob is mapped to that control. Even better would be the ability for the user to change these assignments.


3. More pages of Tone Adjust, maybe 8 per program would be nice.


4. Template settings for parts of a program, for example filter setups and envelopes etc.


For myself the above additions would be extremely useful.

[Ojustaboo]

I see a lot of criticism here and personally I think it's a bit much. Honestly, who gives two cares what "Piano World" thinks of the Kronos Keybed? I sure don't! Never even heard of it and I've been playing reading professional keyboard mags for 25+ years. I think the Kronos keybed is a GREAT compromise between a semi and full weighted keybed. As long as the triggering is solid (Which so far it has been for me) I'm cool with it. I don't WANT a sluggish heavy keybed, cause when I play organ/leads nothing sucks more!

So let's try to be positive shall we?

To be honest your post has annoyed me a little.

We're discussing the direction the Kronos can take, while you may have never heard of piano forums its a very very well known site related to playing and learning the piano and has hundreds of actual piano teachers active on it.

I moved from the Triton 88 extreme to the Kronos 88. I have stated I like the action personally. I would be lying if I said I was impressed with the quality of the RH3. I bought a well gigged scratched extreme that needed buttons and switches replaced but the keyboard was perfect, no weird noises from certain keys, no problems whatsoever.

I waited over a year before buying the Kronos and still went through hell with the keybed problem. I m very very happy with my x version but I still don't think it's keybed is the same build standard my extremes was.

I personally think the keybed has held the Kronos back hugely in sales, the note problem aside, I have come across post after post of people who were really excited when they heard about the Kronos until they realised it was still using the RH3.

You may not care what they think, but many many people after synths and digital pianos go to that site asking for advice on what to buy and usually if the person mentions the Kronos, they get replies saying its not suitable to learn and play the piano on due to the RH3 keybed and get put off buying.

Personally I think their opinions and the amount of people being put off buying the Kronos is extremely important to its future, and if korg never decide to bring out a model with an upgraded keybed, at least I hope the people at korg have seen threads like this and will make sure the kronos successor has a great keybed that teachers whose pupils are learning on digital panos are willing to recommend.

I posted a very short comment on what they were saying on piano forums and someone questioned my comment so I gave some examples.

I went out of my way to state I personally like the action, the only criticism I have personally is the quality of the rh3 and that is from personal experiance that almost drove me to the motif xf8.

I haven't seen a lot of negativity/criticism in this thread, I have seen people expressing what could be improved and the quality is one of them as is the action and they should be discussed. (me saying if my X broke there nothing else I want except another X is hardly putting the Kronos down)

Not forgetting I have had two original and one X and all 3 had COMPLETELY different actions and different textures on the black keys, in other words they were three completely different versions as many others who have had more than one Kronos have also commented on. I don't know which of the versions you have, the difference between my original and second was like chalk and cheese, you might have found if you had bought a different Kronos, your opinion may be different.

In the keybed sticky someone has posted

Why on earth would they keep the loud fan in the 61s?

My first two Kronos 88's had the keybed issue, but no problems with the fans. Then I got Kronos X 88, which had the loud fan issue. The loud fan issue is not limited to the 61, or to the original Kronos.

I've returned all three units. Very discouraging. Do I try for a fourth? (Waiting for NAMM announcements first . . . . . )

Again a direction they should take is spend a few more pennies on a decent fan after all the problems people have reported with the original, it's as though korg learnt nothing and are still fitting cheap fans to the X.

Sorry if you think my comments are highly critical, I'm just saying what I personally have experienced and what I have seen others say.

[michelkeijzers]

More program banks. As insane as it sounds, the Kronos is capable of so many things the current amount isn't enough! I don't know the data management structure of the Kronos, but to quote my request on the wish list:

"It would be truly a TREAT to have the user banks expanded to:
U-AA, U-AB, U-AC, U-AD, U-AE, U-AF, U-AG
...

42 banks mean that the PCG file would be very big and also the time to read this file takes longer (i.e. boot time).
It also would cost about 500 MB? So that would be reduced from the internal memory, which is substantial.

On the other hand, it would be cool to have this feature; maybe even optionally (a checkbox in the global section to have a range of less/more program/combi banks etc).

-A way to Organize Drum Track Patterns into MEANINGFUL categories! Also more utilities to edit/rename/manage them.

In the next version of PCG Tools it will be possible to SEE drum kits and wave sequences, thanks to KorganizR. Edit the name or move them up/down would be a nice further addition.

[jimknopf]

The quality of the Kronos RH3 keybed could definitely be improved in some aspects (I for one would like to get a bit faster repetition, and there should be no users quarreling with issues like single key higher or lower velocities etc.). I am all for better quality here. Still I have no real problem playing the present keybed, neither for Piano-/Epiano playing nor for synth sound playing.

But: many comments on Pianoworld are definitely completely out of proportion.

To me most of the guys who write there really don't come across as professional multiupurpose keyboarders, or even advanced amateurs playing gigs, being used to play lots of different keyboard gear live and recording. They rather come across as the typical living room pianist, or local piano teacher, being picky about their personal piano feel - which seems to come from the home paino they happen to have, sometimes being quite weird, and cover a broad range of different views, why this Nord, that Yamaha or Roland RD fits their expectations best.

If I read any keyboard forum with a slightly pitiful grin, then it is this one, and in comparison to what real keyboarders write in real keyboard forums, much of Pianoworld is completely irrelevant for modern forms of music making. From my view many of those posting there should rather stay with their pianos and Clavinovas or even VPianos, and better keep their views out of modern multi-purpose keyboard gear talk, to be taken more serious. A modern keyboard has to be functional for a lot of purposes, and there are weighted synth keybeds which I prefer ten times over many real piano actions, when I play a Rhodes part or a synth solo.

[Purusha]

Agreed with the ability to modify programs when in combi or sequencer mode.

Korg should take a look at how Access' Virus TI works in comparison. Proper native plug-in/editor, edit patches when in multi-mode, use as a sound-card with reasonable low latency etc.

[Ojustaboo]

The quality of the Kronos RH3 keybed could definitely be improved in some aspects (I for one would like to get a bit faster repetition, and there should be no users quarreling with issues like single key higher or lower velocities etc.). I am all for better quality here. Still I have no real problem playing the present keybed, neither for Piano-/Epiano playing nor for synth sound playing.

But: many comments on Pianoworld are definitely completely out of proportion.

To me most of the guys who write there really don't come across as professional multiupurpose keyboarders, or even advanced amateurs playing gigs, being used to play lots of different keyboard gear live and recording. They rather come across as the typical living room pianist, or local piano teacher, being picky about their personal piano feel - which seems to come from the home paino they happen to have, sometimes being quite weird, and cover a broad range of different views, why this Nord, that Yamaha or Roland RD fits their expectations best.

If I read any keyboard forum with a slightly pitiful grin, then it is this one, and in comparison to what real keyboarders write in real keyboard forums, much of Pianoworld is completely irrelevant for modern forms of music making. From my view many of those posting there should rather stay with their pianos and Clavinovas or even VPianos, and better keep their views out of modern multi-purpose keyboard gear talk, to be taken more serious. A modern keyboard has to be functional for a lot of purposes, and there are weighted synth keybeds which I prefer ten times over many real piano actions, when I play a Rhodes part or a synth solo.

Fair comment.

[NuSkoolTone]

42 banks mean that the PCG file would be very big and also the time to read this file takes longer (i.e. boot time).
It also would cost about 500 MB? So that would be reduced from the internal memory, which is substantial.

On the other hand, it would be cool to have this feature; maybe even optionally (a checkbox in the global section to have a range of less/more program/combi banks etc).

Does the boot sequence load PCG every time? That seems kind of wasteful no? That would be unfortunate if true.

-A way to Organize Drum Track Patterns into MEANINGFUL categories! Also more utilities to edit/rename/manage them.

In the next version of PCG Tools it will be possible to SEE drum kits and wave sequences, thanks to KorganizR. Edit the name or move them up/down would be a nice further addition.

Sweet! Can't wait to see it.

[SanderXpander]

If it didn't load the PCG, you would have no programs/combis.

[drmaestro]

Add arrangements to Kronos Then you'll have the ultimate arranger-workstation which will unify this artificial separation between those two kinds of keyboards.

[Kevin Nolan]

Add arrangements to Kronos Then you'll have the ultimate arranger-workstation which will unify this artificial separation between those two kinds of keyboards.

Honestly - they are very different instruments for very different markets and players. Arrangers are primarily for musicians who do not have a particular interest in programming or designing sound, but who are interested in stunning sounding voices, from which they can immediately start to play, arrange and perform. And - arrangers are based around already predetermined genres. So the emphasis is on providing the maximum for players, especially those who traditionally already have a large repertoire, knowledge of (or interest in learning) chord progressions and the like.

As you know, the workstation provides none of that - instead something like the Kronos offers an open-ended domain with vast programming, sound design, recording, mixing and performance capability - but where you are starting from scratch. Much more suited to those wanting to design their own arrangements of existing material or start form scratch composing their own. You need this to be unhindered by presets or voices that cannot be deeply edited.

To merge to the two would clutter each approach, and make such an instrument confused and unwieldy. Each has their place.


@ Dan: though a few pages back - let me state it here that however forthright I express my thoughts on various aspects of Kronos, OASYS, Korg and so on; I for one hold you and all at Korg with deep respect (as I do with Sharp (whatever our debates)). It's a privilege to me a member of this community and a privilege to use the stunning technology you design. This forum and Korg have hugely enhanced my musical life and I am eternally grateful for it. Anything I debate here is always with that premise and stand point. That goes for the rest of the members of this forum - this has always been an exquisite forum with very positive members by and large (when compared to some of the more aggressive and sometimes brutal forums that exist even in our area). Hope this isn't laying it on a bit thick, but text is a horrid mode of communication and feel it important, on occasion, to reset my stance to indicate my deep respect for Dan, Korg, Sharp and all the members of this forum.


Kevin

[michelkeijzers]

If it didn't load the PCG, you would have no programs/combis.

On the Korg Kronos, since it behaves like a computer, everything is copied from volatile memory (SSD in this case) into RAM memory. This also involves samples/waveforms, but also the PCG file is copied.

Afaik the order of loading items is about:
- Bootstrap
- OS (Linux OS), reasonably small
- Some additional Korg Kronos specific libraries, reasonably small
- Waveforms (1-4 GB?)
- PCG file, typically about 50 MB

[1jordyzzz]

The quality of the Kronos RH3 keybed could definitely be improved in some aspects (I for one would like to get a bit faster repetition, and there should be no users quarreling with issues like single key higher or lower velocities etc.). I am all for better quality here. Still I have no real problem playing the present keybed, neither for Piano-/Epiano playing nor for synth sound playing.

But: many comments on Pianoworld are definitely completely out of proportion.

To me most of the guys who write there really don't come across as professional multiupurpose keyboarders, or even advanced amateurs playing gigs, being used to play lots of different keyboard gear live and recording. They rather come across as the typical living room pianist, or local piano teacher, being picky about their personal piano feel - which seems to come from the home paino they happen to have, sometimes being quite weird, and cover a broad range of different views, why this Nord, that Yamaha or Roland RD fits their expectations best.

Actually, RH3 repetition are not that bad, because i've played roland RD-700 GX A LOT, and the repetitive action is not as good as my kronos.. It feels more solid though..

Pianoworld users always complain a lot about korg's action.. They didn't care about the sound at all.. IMHO Kronos piano sounds better that rolands or clavs.. Yes i think they are strictly pianist who uses only piano and only piano sounds in digital keyboards..

[SanderXpander]

Yes that's what I said :p

[GregC]

Pianoworld

':lol:'