What's the reason you DIDN'T buy a Kronos?

dokido · Post by **dokido** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:07 pm

1 price for 61k in my contry is $4200
2 not available yet
3 have not tried it yet, dunno if I need it

stick to the M3 perhaps, I will see

Broadwave · Post by **Broadwave** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:29 pm

Chriskk wrote:So, are you saying that Mac OS X zoom function may not work on the Kronos editor?

I'm sure the zoom function will be just fine... Some people don't realise that us smug Mac users have this feature

Randelph · Post by **Randelph** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:22 pm

What is it with Editors supplied by Korg and Yamaha? For both the M3 and the Motif XS, the editor is sized to fit a 13"? monitor. It crams tons and tons of info in a tiny space.

It's not like we're in the 80's where 13" monitors were that common, and I bet most people using 13" laptops aren't trying to use it for an editor. By going to the lowest common denominator, and not being scalable, they're both something of a pain to use.

A well-done Editor would compensate a lot for the folks that really don't like the uber small fonts on the Kronos.

Randy

RonF · Post by **RonF** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:35 pm

The MacOS zoom feature is OS level, and works on ANY program. I use it daily. Works like a charm. I just wish it had a latching feature, so when your mouse icon hits the screen edge, it doesn't cause the image "window" to slide to a new perspective. Hoping this minor "feature" might show up in Lion.

Another thing I use is a dual monitor set up, with one monitor being an Apple 30" high res, and the other being a lower res LED. I use the 30" as the primary display, and slide all plugins onto the lower res secondary display, with its lower resolution, those plugins blow up like a balloon and are great to work with, all the while using say Logic in high res on the Apple. This is, overall, a preferable solution to the OSX zoom feature.

So, are you saying that Mac OS X zoom function may not work on the Kronos editor?

LyonsT · Post by **LyonsT** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:29 pm

RonF wrote:Hoping this minor "feature" might show up in Lion.

[/quote]

Sorry to inform you, it doesn't.

hermanmusic · Post by **hermanmusic** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:37 pm

Warning: I'm going to say the "S" word.
Yup, the sequencer.
If it had 32 MIDI tracks I'd start liquidating studio equipment immedaitely to buy it. And I'm serious.

I actually did this to buy Oasys back in 2008 assuming, as many others did, that the sequencer would be updated.

Lesson learned: Assume nothing. Buy an instrument for what it can do now, not for what it might do later.
I think it was Sharp who said this.
Anyway, it's sage advice.
Glad to see so many avoiding possible disappointment by taking it.

And by the way, if Korg doesn't release an update for my 01/Wfd pretty soon I'm going to be really ticked off!

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:16 pm

hermanmusic wrote: And by the way, if Korg doesn't release an update for my 01/Wfd pretty soon I'm going to be really ticked off!

I'm still waiting for the 9 synth engine upgrade, sequencer, SSD and sample option upgrade for my Korg X5.

Korg rather sells new instruments than upgrades. However in the future due to software synths they will have to do some kind of upgrade possibilities; that's why the Kronos looks closed but if Korg wants they can make it open. But they probably will not do that before it's absolutely necessary due to market circumstances.

clipnotic · Post by **clipnotic** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:17 am

First, my english is not the best but I try!

Hello @all:

I joined this forum about this thread!

Years ago, I was a Korg user, too! I worked with the Korg n364 and a Trinity V3 and I loved them both.

At that time the pc technology wasn't well-engineered so I controlled them with my Atari Mega St 4 MB and Notator SL ...

But that all happened so long ago!

OK, the reasons I won't buy a Korg Kronos are:

1. obsolete sequencer

For me and today, the sequencer in a workstation is the most important buying decision! I wouldn't need a Korg Kronos VST plugin ... if there would be a bigger display and a creative sequencer with piano roll ... available within Kronos!

And why should I use a Kronos with my DAW? At my DAW I have many VST plugins which make great sounds, too and I have wonderful sequencers! And with my great soundcard I have no problems with latency ..., too!

2. Korg experience

- Let's look at the Triton for example:

6 different versions were available but really great at that time for my opinion was only the Triton Extreme or?

- Oasys:

I spoke a long time with an Oasys user and he told me about the empty promises from Korg ... I think you know that history here, too

So for me this first Kronos Version looks like a beta machine to get money for the next generations. And sorry, why should I pay 3.000 EUR for that? OK, that's the same strategy, the most VST developers follow today but we talk about 3000 EUR for 61 version here in Germany!

3. Price in Germany

I don't pay that!

I would buy a new Korg Workstation:

If they would make it complete! Some of the features I read here, users are missing, are still developed!? Look for example at the sequencer from EMX SD and M3! For sure, some features are planned step by step for the next Kronos generations (like Triton or M3 xpanded) ?? ... but sorry, I'm not a beta tester for Korg!

For one thing, Kronos is a great live keyboard with very good sounds but for another thing at this condition, you have to pay for many semi-finished features, too! And you can't be sure, that all of them will fix at the future! And that is what a long time Oasys user told me!

We extensive discussed that in german musician forums and the feeling I felt there is:

The time is over to feed musicians with a nice cookie and a big marketing strategy - we want a delicate cream-pie! And for this cream-pie I would pay more than 3000 EUR, too. But there is no cream-pie available on the market so we keep using VST cookies from Spectrasonics, East West ... which offer fantastic sounds too and are a sight cheaper than this Kronos workstation! And meanwhile, it's no problem to work with VST plugins live, too!

master logic · Post by **master logic** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:35 pm

I've decided to buy an Octatrack & DSI Tempest instead. Just love the Octatrack & want a different way of working. Would definatley buy the Kronos too if money wasn't an issue.

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:42 pm

clipnotic wrote:So for me this first Kronos Version looks like a beta machine to get money for the next generations.

The Oasys was the beta machine for the kronos. And the Kronos will be the beta machine for the Kronos 2 or whatever. If you will always buy the 'last in line' (like the Extreme) you get the most bucks for the money and without (many) problems/bugs, but you have to wait for that.

And even the Oasys has beta products like the Karma. Almost any synth has a predecessor.

clipnotic · Post by **clipnotic** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 7:44 pm

michelkeijzers wrote:
clipnotic wrote:So for me this first Kronos Version looks like a beta machine to get money for the next generations.
The Oasys was the beta machine for the kronos. And the Kronos will be the beta machine for the Kronos 2 or whatever. If you will always buy the 'last in line' (like the Extreme) you get the most bucks for the money and without (many) problems/bugs, but you have to wait for that.

And even the Oasys has beta products like the Karma. Almost any synth has a predecessor.

"... Oasys was the beta machine for the kronos ... "

Very hard for people which bought an Oasys, paid in Germany for example 8.000 EUR for it and thought they would get an open future-proof system which gets updates like the new features in the Kronos!?

" ... wait ... any synth has a predecessor ..."

Yes you are right but that has something to do with the current possibilities, too! Some workstation users only compare with other workstations? And yes, the Kronos seems to be the best workstation, now (if all the bugs will be fix!).

But my main goal isn't to use always the best workstation but rather to use the best equipment to make the music I like!

And the Kronos looks for me like a big netbook (Atom Processor) with a nice keyboard and great sounds. And I don't understand the price. My pc has a Core i7 CPU with 8 GB DDR3 RAM, 2 harddiscs with 1 TB .... and I paid for that machine with a very good RME soundcard - 1500 EUR two years ago. And I use very good hardware! My masterkeyboard costs 500 EUR. And on this machine I can use all sequencers I like and all VST plugins on this planet! And there are fantastic VST plugins on the market now!

In addition to that, the sequencer of the M3xpanded had in some areas better features instead of that one in the Kronos! As for sequencer, the Kronos seems to be the beta for M3 xpanded in some areas!?

So that's not an advancement but rather a step backwards!

I think a workstation would be great as an alternative to a pc but currently they only create workstations with an obsolete pc integrated and sell them as a new technical marvel???

And if Kronos is only designed to be a live keyboard, why they put all that other features there? Is that only a marketing strategy?

silspok · Post by **silspok** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:47 pm

1) I don't need it at this price level
My equipment:
- Kurzweil PC3X - I would never get rid of this beast ... VAST is absolutely fantastic once you learn it ... 1 600 EUR
- NI Komplete 7 + Alicia Keys ... Kontakt, Massive, FM7, Absynth, Battery, Reaktor, Pianos bundle, ... 500 EUR
- Omnisphere + Trilian - Great, great, great ... 550 EUR
- BFD2 + Evil drums expansion ... needs a bit of tweaking, then cool ... - 350 EUR
- Effect VSTs - cca 500 Eur

I'm on 3500 Eur - price of Kronos 88 ... HE?

(I don't count computer to this, because I don't use it only for music ... and also don't count MIDI controllers (Fatar VMK61, Akai EWI USB, Novation Nocturn, M-Audio Axiom 25))

3) My next buy will be Moog Slim Phatty ... and if I would have 3000 Eur more to spend then probably V-Synth GT (also will check new Jupiter 80)

PinkFloydDudi · Post by **PinkFloydDudi** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:09 pm

clipnotic wrote: 2. Korg experience

- Let's look at the Triton for example:

6 different versions were available but really great at that time for my opinion was only the Triton Extreme or?

I've seen more Triton ProX keyboards in live rigs and even music videos than I have any other triton series. Maybe just me (sorta like how you always see more of the car you drive, after you buy one!). The triton series all seemed pretty good, especially for their time.

(just a little example from a 2008 music video from Nightwish)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pckMm9k7cJw&ob=av2n

michelkeijzers · Post by **michelkeijzers** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:10 pm

clipnotic wrote: "... Oasys was the beta machine for the kronos ... "

Very hard for people which bought an Oasys, paid in Germany for example 8.000 EUR for it and thought they would get an open future-proof system which gets updates like the new features in the Kronos!?

I know it's very hard but it's truth.

clipnotic wrote: " ... wait ... any synth has a predecessor ..."

Yes you are right but that has something to do with the current possibilities, too! Some workstation users only compare with other workstations? And yes, the Kronos seems to be the best workstation, now (if all the bugs will be fix!).
Yes, mostly a newer synthesizer is always better than an earlier one.

clipnotic wrote: And the Kronos looks for me like a big netbook (Atom Processor) with a nice keyboard and great sounds. And I don't understand the price. My pc has a Core i7 CPU with 8 GB DDR3 RAM, 2 harddiscs with 1 TB .... and I paid for that machine with a very good RME soundcard - 1500 EUR two years ago. And I use very good hardware! My masterkeyboard costs 500 EUR. And on this machine I can use all sequencers I like and all VST plugins on this planet! And there are fantastic VST plugins on the market now!
The Kronos is not 'just' a pc. It's embedded software and it has been tested very good for crashes etc. This also happens with Windows/Mac and cost an awful lot of money. However that money can be split between a lot of end users (like millions) and a synth has a lot lower user base.

clipnotic wrote: In addition to that, the sequencer of the M3xpanded had in some areas better features instead of that one in the Kronos! As for sequencer, the Kronos seems to be the beta for M3 xpanded in some areas!?

So that's not an advancement but rather a step backwards!
Maybe an older M3 version was used and no time taken for in between updates. Remember that (most) parts of the software have been reused.

Mike Conway · Post by **Mike Conway** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:26 pm

clipnotic wrote:"... Oasys was the beta machine for the kronos ... "

Very hard for people which bought an Oasys, paid in Germany for example 8.000 EUR for it and thought they would get an open future-proof system which gets updates like the new features in the Kronos!?

I paid 8 grand for the OASYS and felt it was the best money I ever spent. To get streaming samples (like the new pianos) would require different hardware. There is no "future-proof." I am also one of the people who said that you buy something for what it does today. Yet, I'm beside myself with how much Korg added (see below).

I bought my OASYS in 2005 and it was the most updated instrument I have ever owned. My Virus TI is a contender, but the updates are usually FX based. You might get a new Moog style filter, but not a whole synth engine as the OASYS did, several times over.

When the OASYS came out, it had HD-1, AL-1 and CX-3 engines. I posted on the forums several things I wanted:

Poly-unison (it only had Mono-unison) - Korg delivered.
Playback in MIDI Event Edit mode - they added it.
Waveform modulation and user samples in synth engines - they did this with STR-1.
A VPM (FM synth) engine. (I kept referring to SY99's RCM) - Korg added the whole enchillada with this baby!!!!
I complained that the French horn and some brass samples were kind of weak - Korg added EXs3, which is loaded with French horns, etc.

They added a bunch of stuff I didn't ask for, but is very cool - MS-20, PolySix engines, 700 new FX presets, more than 800 new programs, plus Combis.

The only unfulfilled promise I can think of was an EXf (new FX model).

I also asked for 24 bit recording and BANK AUTOLOAD for user samples. Kronos got these features, but at least the Korg guys were listening.

So........., in 5 years I saw all those updates. Do you know how many years (average) that Yamaha dumps the Motif for Motif ES, for Motif XS, for Motif XF? Or - Roland Fantom F/A to Fantom S (and Xa) to Fantom X to Fantom G to Jupiter 80? Or Triton to Triton Studio to Triton Extreme to M3?

ABOUT 2 YEARS.

Today, the OASYS still rocks! I feel sorry for those who bought it in 2009 or 10, as they didn't "feel" the growth - but, they still got everything we got. I won't be selling it for a Kronos, but I'm damn glad to see the platform thrive. If something awful happens to the OASYS, I will continue to work the way I want via Kronos or its successor. I'm glad to see continuity.

While I would also like to see a true 32 channel MIDI sequencer on a Korg, I have been using the OASYS sequencer for 6 years for all my projects. Thanks to processor speed it can load audio in ways that the M3 (and most hardware units) can't. I loathed the Triton sequencers (but used them, along with Roland/Yamaha stuff).

The OASYS sequencer, while very similar in menu functions to predecessors, is lightyears ahead of the Tritons and has features that Roland (including the MV-8000) and Yamaha sequencers do not. It has to do with the culmination of the FX, bus system, Tone Adjust, Sys Ex mixdown, Audio features, 20 track in one pass multi-recording, 200 songs (that can share data via COPY MEASURE) and a display that shows 56 measures at the same time (definitely better on the 10.4" OASYS screen). Okay, it's not a Piano Roll, but I can see 56 measures, which is longer than many of my compositions.

The specialties of the Sequencer also has to do with the fact that you have an integrated synth/audio/fx system. As I've previously demonstrated, you can record 1 pass of your voice and bus it to a dry track, reverb track, pitch shifted track, vocoded track.........all in one pass. You can bus your drum track into MS-20 filters, MOD-7 oscillators, AL-1 sub-osc, STR-1 pickups....all at the same time.

Granted, this is one quirky system and it's missing some basic menu stuff like Move Clock, Velocity/Gate adjust (though you can Tone Adjust the last two), It can do things other workstations can't - like function as a full fledged mixer, at least on the OASYS - see THIS THREAD. I find it an effective tool, once you've got the hang of it. I really like the COMPARE button for quick Undos. Perhaps the hardest part is dealing with a vertical MIDI Event Edit (also that way on my Fantom), as opposed to a piano roll style( like Yamaha). Best of all, the noise floor is low and the recording quality is beautiful.