Clavia / NORD - taking over the (stage) world !! ??

geoelectro · Post by **geoelectro** » Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:37 am

Goughy wrote:
Cpilot wrote:Well, I would never buy a Nord precisely because it's red.
There's only one thing worse than buying a keyboard because it's red...

...and that's not buying it because it's red!

That should be the other way a around!

Geo

Bertotti · Post by **Bertotti** » Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:24 am

Irregardless or wether Nord may or may not be taking over the world can say I love my K61X but still want a Nord. Wondering just what the next flagship Korg workstation will be, wondering what the next version of Nord Stage there may be and wondering even more what might come along from Nord to replace the wave.
I won't even get started on software or that crazy cool Leap Motion thing Sharp linked elsewhere! When it comes to synths and their tones I mostly like them all, keybeds not so much.

kimu · Post by **kimu** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 9:29 am

yesterday i went so see a live gig in a medium-big space of a let me say quite famous singer here, and on stage there a red keyboard...

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:52 am

Frankly, I don't understand what widespread Nord keyboards or Yamaha keyboards use should really prove in this thread. Both are established keyboard series in forth or fifth generation, and of course they are widespread. So what?

The real bottom line is
a) that easy access (Nord) is still a huge benefit for many keyboarders
b) a well tested stage ready patch database (Yamaha) covering a lot of common and well recogizeable ground (of course nobody can cover anything) is just as important for keyboarders as the technological specs of a keyboard

The Kronos is constantly gaining ground in public appearance since one or two years, and is has HUGE benefits over any of the mentioned keyboards as extremely flexible all-purpose board. In fact none of the above is even coming remotely close concerning that!

GregC · Post by **GregC** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 1:32 pm

jimknopf wrote:Frankly, I don't understand what widespread Nord keyboards or Yamaha keyboards use should really prove in this thread. Both are established keyboard series in forth or fifth generation, and of course they are widespread. So what?

The real bottom line is
a) that easy access (Nord) is still a huge benefit for many keyboarders
b) a well tested stage ready patch database (Yamaha) covering a lot of common and well recogizeable ground (of course nobody can cover anything) is just as important for keyboarders as the technological specs of a keyboard

The Kronos is constantly gaining ground in public appearance since one or two years, and is has HUGE benefits over any of the mentioned keyboards as extremely flexible all-purpose board. In fact none of the above is even coming remotely close concerning that!

we are going on 2.5 yrs, and neither Yamaha or Roland has attempted a workstation comparable to the power of the Kronos.

For the workstation niche , I think Korg is putting its competitors further in the rear view mirror.

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 3:25 pm

Kronos does fall short a little in its stage-friendliness. The black controls on a black background are a common Korg problem. (When I got my M50, I really wanted one of the colored versions which are much better in that respect, but unfortunately, the 73 only came in black.) The generic arrangement of the multi-purpose controls does not naturally lead to assignments that are necessarily well-grouped, logical, or obvious in operation. And sometimes the screen is difficult to read/operate, especially when used as a second-tier board.

ChadOnKeys · Post by **ChadOnKeys** » Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:04 am

I am a semi pro musician and I gig with a Nord electro/Korg M50 combo despite owning a Kronos. Reason being despite how amazing the K sounds I simply dont trust the RAM and the SSD to survive the road trips in the back of a trailer.
I regularly use the K for studio sessions and everyone I have worked with has had their mind blown away by the beast.

The Kronos is the best board I have ever played by quite some distance, however I would never take it on the road simply because of the small chance of hardware failure (and I NEVER gig with my best gear).

It would be interesting to know how many other Nord owners also own another high end keyboard that they keep at home for studio/production work..

orangefunk · Post by **orangefunk** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:46 am

I am a big fan of the Nord Stage 2 although I shudder at its price. Even here in Scandinavia it's frighteningly expensive

For me though, there currently isn't another board which really covers what a lot of die-hard jazz, soul, funk, fusion musicians who want a certain rhodes sound, and vintage keyboards and fx in a simple package. I think the layout and the keyboard feel are well matched to the sounds. Certainly I have not heard another board when played live that sounds as good as the Nord Stage...

Korg had the right idea with the SV-1, beautiful look and layout, but the Rhodes sounds/action weren't quite up to the Nord and the lack sample import really hurt it. Still, I think it is quite a classic of it's own in a way esp if you dirty up the sounds a bit.

The Kronos is a different board entirely from the above. I like the acoustic pianos but I don't get the love for it's Rhodes sound.. I still think Nord and Scarbee set the benchmark there. The Kronos to me is like a laboratory, tons of room for experimentation and the live mode is fantastic. The combination mode is great for trying out ideas... even just changing the sounds in the combinations can lead to some fantastic results.

However, I recently upgraded my version of Reason to v7 (from 2.5!) and I think the synths (Thor is plain amazing) and rack extensions (Antidote (beautiful), Korg MonoPoly (for some reason this sounds so much better than the MS20 and Polysix)) in that are as good as they get. I much prefer experimenting on my iMac than poking around on the Kronos' unresponsive screen.

Still... I do get the love for the Kronos.... It is in a class of its own as an all in one keyboard. I think if the 88 had a better action, better vintage sound pack (perhaps this could be created as a community thing rather than Korg itself), and a more responsive LCD screen I would feel it more.

I have not even turned mine on in 3 months though... which probably speaks a lot for me... I have spent the whole time just playing a Rhodes MkII, 1972 Minimoog and Oberheim Matrix 12... and selling off a load of other boards in the process.... now I am thoroughly enjoying Reason 7 (they also have a great community).

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:52 am

I think my Kronos definitely sounds better than my Stage, Rhodes and especially Wurlitzer and grand piano too. One of the Mk1 Rhodes presets sounds in a certain register IDENTICAL to my Mark 1 88. I mean literally I couldn't tell the difference, and I consider myself to be pretty good at that stuff. While I really liked the Nord's playability, after a while you do hear the small sample base they used for the Rhodes. And since you can't really alter anything about the base sound...

That all just goes to show that tastes differ

The Nord has definitely carved itself a market share.

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:43 am

i too prefer the Kronos EPs and Pianos by far over the Nords. The Nord Rhodes does not really play in the Sarbee league, while the Kronos Rhodes do, especially if you leave the factory presets and do your own.

But I understand one thing Orangefunk mentions, and that concerns the more rough sounds and the "dirt" he talks about. From my view this is the only thing concerning sound that works better on a Nord, and many keyboarders (including me) want that for funk, r&b, hiphop, rock, electric jazz and whatever. It concerns both B3 and EP sounds.

On the Kronos, that's due to a) the Overdrive effect, which sounds better on Nords and is really weak, not so say bad, on a Kronos. And it concerns b) the choice of sample material, where the small Nord Rhodes samples sound poor and lifeless from my view (just like the Yamaha vintage Rhodes sound), but are recorded with view to the more agressive "barking" Rhodes stage MkI sounds (also like the Yamaha vintage): These kinds of Rhodes settings (MK I with "sharp" pickup settings) are simply completely missing in the Kronos Rhodes modelling and presets. And those presets, where someone tried to cure the missing sound by using the EP cabinet "drive" or other Kronos overdrive effects, sound really bad due to harsh and ugly, unnatural overdrive.

Whoever did the EP engines at Korg, must have been a "tame" soul without proper sense for that more aggressive Rhodes sound, and you have to invest some work and effort, to get close anyway by using some of the tools on board of a Kronos (preamp, amp modelling, EQing etc.).

But this is only ONE aspect of proper Rhodes sounds. And concerning the dynamics and richness of Rhodes sounds overall, the Kronos is in the Scarbee league, and the Nords are not IMO.

orangefunk · Post by **orangefunk** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 12:04 pm

My current Rhodes (a 1980 MkII) is set up really hot with the pick-ups close to the tines.... so close that if you strike a key really really hard you will sometimes hear a thunk of the tine brushing the pickup....

The sound I get is actually between a rhodes and wurly with massive bark... pretty much what people associate with an early 70s Mk1 (a lot of those records had the same 'thunk' effect). I put it direct from the harp through a lexicon on a tremolo effect with a tiny bit of EQ and reverb on the desk and the result is beautiful... if I wanna dirty it up I can use my fx pedals or the fx in Logic/Reason...

I am not into the pretty Rhodes sounds on most workstations or digital pianos... I get bored very quickly with them... I daresay I would quickly tire of the Stage II Rhodes but I still think its the best one on a keyboard for my taste.

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 12:44 pm

The problem on a real Rhodes (I play a stage MKI) is that you can only choose one setup at a time. Like with your MkII, on my Mk 1 rather have set up the "hot" pickup settings for a more agressive, overtone-rich sound.

But I like many other Rhodes variants just as or nearly as much (various pickup settings, amping and effects), especially the (not hot but dry!) 70s Hancock sound with and without stereo panning, the early suitacse bell tone from many early R&B and jazzrock setups, the clean later ambience Rhodes sounds with delay, the various phaser, flanger and chorus signature sounds from different Rhodes generations etc. etc. And this variety is much better playable in high quality on the Kronos, than on any Nord, Yamaha or Kurzweil synth today.

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:34 pm

Maybe it's cause I'm pretty heavy handed sometimes but I don't seem to miss a lot of bark.
Perhaps try a different velocity curve or really lay into it? My Mk1 also needed a lot of oomph before I got it modded (and it got a lot better in general). Or maybe I'm used to my Mk1, which is naturally one of the darker Rhodes pianos available, at least without the suitcase preamp. The Kronos is definitely much more dynamic than the Nord, that could also be part of it. Still loved being able to instantly throw a phaser, chorus, delay or auto pan on it on a whim.

orangefunk · Post by **orangefunk** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:12 pm

jimknopf wrote:
But I like many other Rhodes variants just as or nearly as much (various pickup settings, amping and effects), especially the (not hot but dry!) 70s Hancock sound with and without stereo panning

I have found using a VOX preamp like the Tonelab is a nice way to have a variety of preset Rhodes sounds on tap. The tones in the Tonelab are pretty cool (actually its a kind of needle in a haystack but once you find the sweet spot its cool)... and of course I believe these are similar to the ones in the Kronos/SV1.. albeit an earlier version...

I was in a discussion with somebody about Herbie's sound on Facebook earlier this year, when none other than David Rubinson (the producer of Headhunters and others) chimed and in and gave the lowdown... basically its a rhodes setup with the tines quite close, but with a fair bit of harmonic rather than fundamental. The signal is then split into 3 separate lines and processed in parallel individually although I believe tube limiting is used on the end. I will try and find the thread but I can't seem to search for it on Facebook...

Also Herbie had a different hammertip config where woodcore was used into the mid-range if I am not mistaken.

PianoManChuck · Post by **PianoManChuck** » Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:43 pm

I haven't read all the pages of this thread yet (just a couple), but I have a 88-key Nord Stage 2, and the 88-key Kronos as well as a few other boards. I would NEVER take the Kronos to a gig - way too heavy, and the menuing system just won't fly at a gig. The NS2 is light in comparison (about 40 something lbs), all the knobs/buttons are dedicated so you just twiddle the right knob for whatever you want (EQ, Effects, etc) which makes it a no-brainer that allows you to focus on the music. And it sounds good in terms of cutting through the other instruments in the band.

But we're comparing apples & oranges here. NS2 is a stage piano. Kronos is a workstation. I use the Kronos in the studio for coming up with new creations, or just to relax (I like the keybed on the Kronos the best of all my boards). The Kronos is my board of choice for both the studio and for creativity / new music... and my favorite board of all of the boards I own.

Casio came out with their new PX-5S which is a stage piano / master controller. While not quite as nice sounding as the Nord when it comes to pianos, it weighs in at just 24 lbs! So this, coupled with the fact that I have programmable knobs/sliders for the basics that I need (EQ & Effects), it makes it an effective replacement for the NS2. My NS2 is now up for sale because I'm really not using it anymore now that I have the PX-5S for the stage.... and because the PX-5S has 8 AA batteries inside, if anyone walks over the power cord on stage, the batteries kick in for an immediate UPS. (Anyone interested in buying an NS2, contact me - I'm in Los Angeles).

Bottom line for me - Kronos all the way in the studio, PX-5S for stage / gigs, NS2 now only used in the studio when I need superb control over whatever piano patch I'm using.