New Roland Fantom 2019

narf · Post by **narf** » Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:00 am

https://youtu.be/p-nu9ma2988

https://www.roland.com/global/products/ ... lang=en-JM

Jan1 · Post by **Jan1** » Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:56 am

I'm happy to see Roland coming out with a new workstation, and that the 88 key version has the PHA50 keybed.
The sampler seems to be a basic WAV file trigger, and the sequencer is clip based (something I did not like on my Fantom G) and intended for sketching only. It's a pity Roland did not take the criticism on the Fantom G to heart.

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:33 pm

It's great they finally have their own workstation on the market again, as signal to the other manufacturers that there is a significant market to compete for, still deciding the whole reputation of a keyboard manufacturer.

It's just a pity, that despite being basically useable it just seems to be as half-baked, as it has become Roland signature since years. How could we seriously regard something as workstation, which does not offer proper user sampling to add instrument sample libraries? It's just a ROMpler with some more advanced factory sample handling/modelling then, is it? And are there really only 4x128 "scenes" (the overall performance patch category) in there? And in the manual I read: "Number of Samples: 16 Pads x 4 Banks". Seriously?

On the positive side, in the manual, the sequencer looks ok, and even does seem to have a piano roll.

Overall, this rather looks like another ok performance synth, than like an adult workstation remotely comparable with the Kronos.

shefu · Post by **shefu** » Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:22 pm

So Roland thought it would be best for their new workstation to be called the same as their old series (which wasn't that popular to begin with) and furthermore to make it look very similar to Yamaha's Montage.

I feel like Roland is run by a bunch of clowns and I say this as old school Roland fan.

Musicwithharry · Post by **Musicwithharry** » Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:12 pm

That new Roland Fantom sure looks like a Yamaha Montage...

Mr_SamDoogie · Post by **Mr_SamDoogie** » Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:06 pm

This looks interesting as a workstation controller then a traditional workstation if you my drift.

Bachus · Post by **Bachus** » Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:01 am

Some remarks

- there seems to be no organ engine
- daw integration only with apple products logic and mainstage so far
- seems to be same sound engine as the jupiter X
- no super natural acoustic sounds? Would have been perfect for an all around workhorse keyboard
- only a faint rumor about future engine updates, but nothing confirmed

Also seems to be a very basic arp, the jupiter xm one looks to be much more advanced

CharlesFerraro · Post by **CharlesFerraro** » Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:50 am

Just like the Jupiter X, I can’t seem to find information on what synth capabilities the new Fantom has. The website says it has a piano engine, PCM, and virtual analog capabilities. Not really enough to pique my interest.

The Hydrasynth on the other hand... now THATS a synth!

Bachus · Post by **Bachus** » Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:40 am

CharlesFerraro wrote:Just like the Jupiter X, I can’t seem to find information on what synth capabilities the new Fantom has. The website says it has a piano engine, PCM, and virtual analog capabilities. Not really enough to pique my interest.

The Hydrasynth on the other hand... now THATS a synth!

Several engines..

VA
pCM
PCM crossfade
V-piano
Super SAW
Noise

I think thats it..

Every sound consist out of up to 4 partials, each partial can be any of the above engines..

There is no word however on the PCM sample format..
Are they multi layered samples?

What i read so far on the sampling capabilities is that it seems to be more for looping and single shot samples triggerd by the pads..

Someone that visited the London Abbey road event told me the instruments are far from done, and will be patched quite often with new features.

I guess Roland wnated to release before Namm 2020 when i expect some new korg and Montage workstations

Broadwave · Post by **Broadwave** » Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:19 am

To be really honest... I was bought with the adage "If you can't say anything good, then don't say anything at all"

So... Umm... errr.

I'll keep the Kronos.

Musicwithharry · Post by **Musicwithharry** » Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:02 pm

According to Roland's website, the information on the Fantom is somewhat cryptic.

Their site info on the Fantom has a V-Piano engine and the ZEN-Core engine.

From a review I read last evening, the V-Piano is full-polyphony. I am not sure what the ZEN-Core polyphony is.

It also says that the sampler is 8-voice polyphonic.

I am sure more details will emerge as it is released more.

Maybe they rushed it to market to quickly?

As I said before, it sure looks like a Montage....

Grace,
Harry

Jan1 · Post by **Jan1** » Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:28 pm

Bachus wrote:- no super natural acoustic sounds? Would have been perfect for an all around workhorse keyboard
- only a faint rumor about future engine updates, but nothing confirmed

That's what I am wondering about too.
I haven't had time to check out the demos, so I don't know what Roland has come up with as a replacement.

SN acoustic included modeled performance aspects which greatly enhance the realism, and if Roland has abandoned that and went back to the typical nineties type of sample ROM it would be a big step backwards, definitely the wrong kind of retro.

The synth patches I have heard thusfar sounded very good, but I have seen and read far too little to be able to get a good impression.

And when it comes to updates, I still remember how Roland handled updates for the Fantom G...

Musicwithharry · Post by **Musicwithharry** » Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:42 pm

With the SuperNatural sound references I have seen in this thread, I think that the SuperNatural piano would be negated because they have included the V-Piano engine. I think that the V-Piano engine would be superior to the SuperNatural pianos anyway...

With regard to the other sounds in the SuperNatural engine, maybe the new ZEN-Core is superior to that too. I read that the Zen-Core was for the synth stuff, but maybe it does more...

Maybe the PCM engine is superior to the SuperNatural engine, or maybe EVERYTHING in the new PCM engine is SuperNatural, so they did not label it as such....

I think that there is still a lot of speculation at this point because details are still forthcoming. Maybe Roland rushed this out a bit soon before releasing any true details. I am sure time will reveal what the synth has in it

The last real Roland workstation I had was the XP60 and that was back in the 2000's. I have had JV880s in my studio for a long time (not now, though). I also had a VR-09 that was used for the Clonewheel features (which were great), but the SuperNatural piano was a bit underwhelming...

The only Roland boards I have in my studio now are a D-05 (gotta have one of those) and an old E-09 Arranger (which does not get used at all and is strictly a backup for my PA700 until I get another one of those, hopefully later this month).

I may have to add the JU06A to my list of 'wants' though. That looks pretty cool...

Grace,
Harry

Bachus · Post by **Bachus** » Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:53 pm

Musicwithharry wrote:According to Roland's website, the information on the Fantom is somewhat cryptic.

Their site info on the Fantom has a V-Piano engine and the ZEN-Core engine.

From a review I read last evening, the V-Piano is full-polyphony. I am not sure what the ZEN-Core polyphony is.

It also says that the sampler is 8-voice polyphonic.

I am sure more details will emerge as it is released more.

Maybe they rushed it to market to quickly?

As I said before, it sure looks like a Montage....

Grace,
Harry

People misuderstand rolands sampler
Its not a sampler like korg uses..
Its primarilly goal is one shot samples and loops, deejay style
I read all the manuals, but you can’t sample for keyboard sets..

Polyphony of the zen-core engine seems to be very much dependend on what way you use the engine.. much like the polyphony with the different kronos engines

CharlesFerraro · Post by **CharlesFerraro** » Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:28 pm

Bachus wrote:
Several engines..

VA
pCM
PCM crossfade
V-piano
Super SAW
Noise

Do you know more about the VA, super saw and noise engines? Alchemy had a superb noise spectral engine as well as an amazing VA section with unison (I remember being able to stack 600 oscillators, which to be fair just sounds like literal noise at that point.)... is Roland stepping up to that beast or are we talking about something more basic with Fantom’s noise and VA sections?
Will there be a lot of sculpting capabilities in the oscillators of the VA engine a la Zebra 2 or Serum? I would expect the usual suspects like cross mod, ring, sync, PWM etc.

Maybe I’m too used to Korg’s way of doing things like not announcing a product till it’s ready and being up front with specs. Is that too much to ask from Roland? I feel like they’re trying to pull a fast one by not giving full disclosure. Or at best, are simply jumping the gun with announcements while the product is still in development.