Guitar Mode

Simke · Post by **Simke** » Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:44 am

I recorded a chord progression in Ending 1.
I noticed when I use note F1 in Guitar Mode there is no sound from 001.01.000-001.01.040 and notes F # 1 and G1 from 001.01.000-001.01.030 .... but when I delete the chord progression then it plays from 001.01.000.
Why is that ... maybe it's common when playing a real guitar ... what is your opinion.
Thank you!

siebenhirter · Post by **siebenhirter** » Mon Mar 15, 2021 12:13 pm

Simke wrote:I recorded a harmonic progression in Ending 1.
I noticed when I use note F1 in Guitar Mode there is no sound ....

"F1" is one of the keys in the octave from C1 to B1 to select a strumming type and means strumming "Full Down Slow".
With none of that keys you will find a sound, because recording a Guitar track to simulate a real guitar is unlike recording the other tracks, where you play exactly all the notes of a melody line or all the chords of an accompaniment.

This topic can be found in the manual under the title "Recording a Guitar track", but it is too extensive to be descripted here.

Simke · Post by **Simke** » Mon Mar 15, 2021 2:03 pm

@siebenhirter thanks!
F1 is audible after 40 ticks .... F # 1 and G1 are heard after 30 ticks from the moment that note is recorded (I checked in Event Mode). Other notes of that strumming type (x1) are heard exactly at that moment (tick)) when they are played.That is my issue.Note ... this only happens when chord progression is added (C-1 ... B-1).
I notice that F1, F # 1 and G1 are slow strumming chords ... maybe that's the answer ?!

siebenhirter · Post by **siebenhirter** » Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:48 pm

Simke wrote: .. That is my issue. ..

It makes absolutely no sense to hear or check in edit mode how many ticks a note becomes audible after note events F1, F # 1 and G1, since these events do not present a note, but the strumming type of a subsequent key / chord parameter pair.

With Intro 1 and Ending 1 these key / chord parameter pairs played from C-1 to B-1 presents the reference key for the ChordProgression and the ChordType of which is determined by the velocity of note. As long as no chord progression exists (or has been deleted), a note event F1, F # 1, G1 is absolutely pointless, because it only presents a strumming type without a chordprogression, because no key / chord parameters are found for it. With other style elements than Intro1/Ending1 the chordparameter will be used only for listening during recording, but during playback the chord will follow the chord recognition.

Your only issue seems to be that you did not read "" Recording a Guitar track " in your manual, where all your questions are answered without having to count ticks or puzzling over, which envelope characteristics strumming types F1, F # 1, G1 could have.

Simke · Post by **Simke** » Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:27 pm

@siebenhirter .... if you don't know the answer to my question it's wiser not to answer than to use underestimation!

siebenhirter · Post by **siebenhirter** » Tue Mar 16, 2021 4:55 pm

Simke wrote:.... if you don't know the answer to my question it's wiser not to answer than to use underestimation!...

I already knew the answer and informed you about it, that notes F1, F#1 and G1 you found with EventMode in a GuitarTrack do not present a note event or a chord event, but another event (strumming type) - so what you get audible after that events in event mode has nothing to do with this three events.

In guitar mode, these only are events to control the automatic accompaniment and with your editor you will not find chord events generated with chord recognition.

Yes - F1, F#1 and G1 of course are slow strumming chord types. That exactly you will find in manual and if you do not believe, try to find it on page 274: F1 Full Down Slow, F#1 Full Down Slow Mute, G1 Full Up Slow - maybe that is the answer on what you noticed after your analysis, for which I recommended you to read this in the manual under "Recording a Guitar Track".

I therefore recommend you again to use the manual in order to be able to at least define your issue in an understandable way.

Of course you're right too, that it in the future for me it is wiser not to answer your questions.

Simke · Post by **Simke** » Tue Mar 16, 2021 8:10 pm

Yes, don't answer me anymore, because judging by your answers above, they are completely useless ... not worth reading!

Nemik · Post by **Nemik** » Wed Mar 17, 2021 12:37 am

When you programming Guitar Mode in Intro or Ending not using NTT, Korg got the way to chord progression using Velocity of Notes.
Check here in Key/Chord Intro tab:
https://performersheaven.com/en/resourc ... ar-mode-en
maybe that's help you a bit.

Simke · Post by **Simke** » Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:48 pm

@Nemik my friend ,if you want to help try eg. style from scratch .. in End 1, acc 2, some guitar sound in gtr type ... in 001.01.000 insert some chord (eg. C-1) and strumming note F1 also in 001.01.000 and then answer me what happened !!?
Thank you!

Nemik · Post by **Nemik** » Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:25 pm

Simke wrote:@Nemik my friend ,if you want to help try eg. style from scratch .. in End 1, acc 2, some guitar sound in gtr type ... in 001.01.000 insert some chord (eg. C-1) and strumming note F1 also in 001.01.000 and then answer me what happened !!?
Thank you!

That's why I gave you link to website.

I wrote there:

These notes must be inserted on same position (time) or a little bit early as notes use for Strumming.

I don't remember how I did find out about, but for sure Korg Manual not saying anything.
We all know Manual is written by professional for professionals.

Most people has problem to understand, that's why we got this forum.
You doing nothing wrong, is exactly how you said, must be some ticks range before you strumming.
Don't ask me why, I don't really know.
Funny thing is, if you in record mode and testing there, then is all fine, but when you write to style and exit, then in Style mode is not working.
You just have to deal with this, most Styles programmer use more own experience that follow manual, and I suggest for you do the same, is it what is it.
Korg Pa4x is excellent arranger, but is not perfect, maybe some day they will fix all issues, but as today nothing we can do about.
BTW, if you ever play real guitar, you first change chord and then you strumming.

I hope you understand all this.

Nemik · Post by **Nemik** » Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:02 am

Update
I did check all strumming and on Pa600.
F1 -- Full Down Slow need to be at least 40 ticks after Chord Progression for Intro 1 or Ending 1 (Elements not use NTT) (C-1 to B-1)
also G1 -- Full Up Slow has to be at least 30 ticks.
I guess is a bug, don't think they program that way.
I hope people from Korg can fix this.

Simke · Post by **Simke** » Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:55 pm

@Nemik thank you very much..that's the answer!

Korghelper · Post by **Korghelper** » Sat Mar 20, 2021 12:20 pm

The processing for the Guitar Mode takes a fair bit of calculation, it is unsurprising that you can’t put a chord’s notes AND the instruction of how to process them on exactly the same tick. Even on a real guitar, you have to fret the notes before you hit the strings! Your left hand has to lead your right by a few ticks...

Hopefully, as faster processors get used in future arrangers, the number of ticks you have to lead the strum instruction by will drop. Mind you, whether this will mess with legacy styles is yet to be determined. But be assured, ALL guitar modes on different brands all suffer the same issue.

Guitar Mode is different from normal NTT lookup tables, which only have one pattern to trigger once the chord is recognized. Guitar Mode has to calculate the correct chord voicing using only six strings, the position on the neck for the voicing and the strum type, far more work than is needed for a regular arranger Part. The lag is to be expected...

Simke · Post by **Simke** » Sat Mar 20, 2021 5:20 pm

The question arises why this only happens with slow strumming notes and why in style record mode it works on first tick while in style rec element trk controls mode, event edit mode and style play mode not ... @ Nemik says maybe it's a bug ?!

siebenhirter · Post by **siebenhirter** » Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:53 pm

Korghelper wrote:The processing for the Guitar Mode takes a fair bit of calculation, it is unsurprising that you can’t put a chord’s notes ......

If it is interpreted "The octave from C1 to B1 is devoted to selecting a strumming type" with an image that show a 76-key-piano it does not mean, that pressed keys from C1 to B1 really represent the strumming-type with that same key-names of a 61-key-piano in the style editor.

Of course, this also applies the other way around if you edit C1 - B1 and expect that this should correspond to the strumming types.

I may be wrong about this, but it should be ensured that it really are meant the same data types before discussing their properties or to look for bugs.

PS: Also this matter could be checked with guitar tracks of the factory style to be used as a sample for own creations (this should always work without confusion).

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