Zero4's many problems!

Discussion relating to the Korg D-series digital recoders, MR-1/MR-1000 mobile recorders and Zero4/8 mixers

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risquedj
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:59 pm
Location: Bland Strand, SC.

Zero4's many problems!

Post by risquedj »

Ok, so I did not write the following (Jayo from ProDJForums.com did), though I am in complete agreement as to the issues addressed within. All I want to know from the guys at Korg is, are these issue going to be FIXED in an update? More importantly, is this mixer going to be updated at all? I'm SERIOUSLY considering sending this thing back if there are not going to be updates to fix the problems that should have been worked out before they released it. Now we all know what took so long getting this mixer out to the public..........should have been another couple months in my opinion.



The Issues:

1): Cue/Master level dip: The master and cue when knob is set between the two dip... They are supposed to dip only slightly.. But on the zero 4 they dip too much..

Korgs reply to this is utter crap (big shout to PaulyBatz for contacting them, I hardly get time to call them during the day..) The reason I say this is utter crap is because I MAX out my faders, always have always will. So if the Cue is pre fader and the monitor is post fader and the faders are "maxed", the sound level is the same there should be little to no dip... Just like every other mixer out there...

2): ( I don't really care about this)
No Send and Return Loop: Now that I have had time to reflect, I can and can't understand this one... I can understand it because the board already has effects and a sampler... But I can't understand it because only the Zero8 has the built in kaoss, so what if you want a 4 channel but also use a kaoss.. (they may say buy a Zero8 and I say I don't want a 19" board between my tech 12"s because I use the edge of my anvil crates as a shelf for my bluetooth Imac keyboard.. which can only be done with a 10" or 12" mixer)

3): TSR and Line gain difference: TSR is lower... So you have to crank your gains when in TSR "line" mode... There should be an edit in zero edit or somewhere to adjust this however there isn't.. I think they are expecting you to have a line out level adjustment on what ever you are plugging in to compensate for this, but with some items this just isn't the case.. (work around being to drop your gains for your "cd/line" to about nothing and crank your master, however this bones you when hotswapping between two items...)

4): User Replaceable Channel faders: These should have been single units not paired seeing most guys are going to plug their cd/turntables to channels 2/3 and opposed to 1/2 or 3/4

5): Crossfader Curve Control: The slope to this is wrong according to some.. When setting to blend but blend isn't really not all the way to the left... If you want a true blend with no dip, set it at between 11 and 12 o'clock... Not really an issue just a problem for some, this should be able to be changed and set in zero edit so it is all the way to the left... (ah zero edit I have a big rant about that but I'll get to that later)

6): Heat Issues: I think this was an isolated case for some (yeah I'm one of the isolated few that are having overheating issues), because my studio can get to be a sauna (if I forget to turn on the air), and the mixer is an ice chest compared to my x1500... Meaning it stays cool...

7): Traktor Scratch Certified: What the hell does this mean, I asked some very pointed questions to Traktors Support Dept... and they could tell me nothing more that what was already public knowledge... Which is not very much.. (Traktors documentation and Korgs are about the same... Piss poor)

The question is "AM I going to have to use all four channels to get a time code vinyl to control Traktor or Torq?" So far this is the only way I can do it in Torq (two to send control data, two to receive audio) which eats up most of your board functions that you would want to use for other stuff..

8): CD/Vinyl Audio Loops via Zero 4's internal sound card: Why can't I take CD audio or time code... Send it to a pc to add pc effects to, or control a program, and get that processed audio back on the same channel.. When you select I/O in lets say ableton you can select Zero 4 channel input and channel output.. So like I said that audio should be able to be routed directly pre-fader to the pc then pre-fader back...

9): Effect parameter mute when changing Time dial: In some effects if you change time on the fly you get some weird sounding stuff... I don't know if there can be anything done about that..

10): Audible Pop when changing effects: If you have effects on and change them mid stroke you will get a audible pop.. This is not detrimental to the channel faders for you do not ever normally do this.. However if you want to effect over a sample that is already playing this becomes a real problem..

11): EQ Selector output change: (edit thanks Seegweed) When changing from EQ to Isolator, to Filter, even with all parameters set at zero (middle), there is an audible change in sound level. (when doing this on the fly.... This brings us back to (zero edit - Eq status... see my comments below)

12): ZERO EDIT: Absolutely pointless...

Fader setting.. Ok you can change the curve (very cool).. But if you happen to bump fader control knob it goes back to normal... (not cool, not cool, not cool) Also why can't you set your own custom slopes for the curve control knobs..

EQ Status... Ok they are all set the the same thing... Via the knob on the front of the unit.. If I need to see that I will bend over and look at the knob on the front of the unit... You should be able to change these and have it set... Like 1/4 to filter, and 2/3 to isolator... Most likely a feature of the zero 8 because I saw a picture somewhere where they were different on each channel...

Audio I/O setting... Ok not enough to change here to get it to do what I think it should do.. (See point 8)

Ok but why is this useless.. Because apparently you are suppose to be able to send changes to the zero 4's memory... I don't see a button to do that... Never seen a prompt saying sending data only receiving data... The only save I see is to save the info in a file to your hard drive.. What if I am not hooked up to my pc every time I dj.. Then I guess any changes I made are null and void when not tethered to my pc..



So can someone from Korg, preferably Jerry, answer my question please?
Reggmail
Junior Member
Posts: 55
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:06 am

Post by Reggmail »

:( Hello, This cueing problem with the Zero 4 has been an ongoing thing since it came out.
If you think that working with this problem in Ableton is bad, please be ready to pull your hair out with Traktor.
I've been on the phone with Korg almost twice a week and constantly have been experimenting to see any work around's to deal with this situation.
So far Korg is still trying to reproduce the problem and that do not seem to be happening with them.
I told them today that if [Input selector] is put to {Audio + Midi} you can set up routing for a proper headphone cue but lose four knobs, on & off switch, cue, and A & B buttons for midi controlling.
If you put [Input Selector] to {midi} you have all your controllers but now you lose proper headphone cuing. (Bummer) :? :o :shock:
They will get back to me on that.

About the midi, I tried to Midi the Zero 4 to my drum machine using standard midi in and out cables, set that proper transmit channels sending MTC from three separate devices and none of the devices was able to send the midi clock to the Zero 4 or Zero 4 to midi devices.
That is very crucial if you want a sequencer, drum machine or DAW to operate that clock in the Z4, it didn't work.
Korg did admit to being aware of that problem and that information went to Japan. 8)
Usually when that happens, it mean an update is on the way.(stay tune)

On saving FX, the only saving that I believe that the Z's allow is your midi control parameter set up's talked about on page 3 on the PDF cd.
It would be a nice idea to be able to store FX parameters as well, I don't know if this could be added in a software upgrade but we can all send this request to Korg.

Hopefully along with the midi problem, the cueing problom would be on the list as well, I will keep everyone informed.
All and all if these bugs could be addressed, I fell that the Z, series mixers would be one of the best mixers on the market today.
If nothing else we will get to see how Korg deals with customers technical concerns for their products. 8)
Peace & blessings.
juanpablo
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:55 pm

zero 4 routings

Post by juanpablo »

so, as a newbie my question is

is it possible to route audio from the mixer from a cdj to a pc in ableton, apply effects and send back the audio via firewire to the same channel again or not possible?

thnx

jp/ italy
euklid.fox
Junior Member
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:25 am

Post by euklid.fox »

i told you it's possible
juanpablo
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:55 pm

Post by juanpablo »

thank you very much again.

I wrote twice because nobody answered.

JP
ivarzz
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 8:10 pm
Location: Latvia, Riga

Re: Zero4's many problems!

Post by ivarzz »

risquedj wrote:Ok, so I did not write the following (Jayo from ProDJForums.com did), though I am in complete agreement as to the issues addressed within. All I want to know from the guys at Korg is, are these issue going to be FIXED in an update? More importantly, is this mixer going to be updated at all? I'm SERIOUSLY considering sending this thing back if there are not going to be updates to fix the problems that should have been worked out before they released it. Now we all know what took so long getting this mixer out to the public..........should have been another couple months in my opinion.



The Issues:

1): Cue/Master level dip: The master and cue when knob is set between the two dip... They are supposed to dip only slightly.. But on the zero 4 they dip too much..

Korgs reply to this is utter crap (big shout to PaulyBatz for contacting them, I hardly get time to call them during the day..) The reason I say this is utter crap is because I MAX out my faders, always have always will. So if the Cue is pre fader and the monitor is post fader and the faders are "maxed", the sound level is the same there should be little to no dip... Just like every other mixer out there...

2): ( I don't really care about this)
No Send and Return Loop: Now that I have had time to reflect, I can and can't understand this one... I can understand it because the board already has effects and a sampler... But I can't understand it because only the Zero8 has the built in kaoss, so what if you want a 4 channel but also use a kaoss.. (they may say buy a Zero8 and I say I don't want a 19" board between my tech 12"s because I use the edge of my anvil crates as a shelf for my bluetooth Imac keyboard.. which can only be done with a 10" or 12" mixer)

3): TSR and Line gain difference: TSR is lower... So you have to crank your gains when in TSR "line" mode... There should be an edit in zero edit or somewhere to adjust this however there isn't.. I think they are expecting you to have a line out level adjustment on what ever you are plugging in to compensate for this, but with some items this just isn't the case.. (work around being to drop your gains for your "cd/line" to about nothing and crank your master, however this bones you when hotswapping between two items...)

4): User Replaceable Channel faders: These should have been single units not paired seeing most guys are going to plug their cd/turntables to channels 2/3 and opposed to 1/2 or 3/4

5): Crossfader Curve Control: The slope to this is wrong according to some.. When setting to blend but blend isn't really not all the way to the left... If you want a true blend with no dip, set it at between 11 and 12 o'clock... Not really an issue just a problem for some, this should be able to be changed and set in zero edit so it is all the way to the left... (ah zero edit I have a big rant about that but I'll get to that later)

6): Heat Issues: I think this was an isolated case for some (yeah I'm one of the isolated few that are having overheating issues), because my studio can get to be a sauna (if I forget to turn on the air), and the mixer is an ice chest compared to my x1500... Meaning it stays cool...

7): Traktor Scratch Certified: What the hell does this mean, I asked some very pointed questions to Traktors Support Dept... and they could tell me nothing more that what was already public knowledge... Which is not very much.. (Traktors documentation and Korgs are about the same... Piss poor)

The question is "AM I going to have to use all four channels to get a time code vinyl to control Traktor or Torq?" So far this is the only way I can do it in Torq (two to send control data, two to receive audio) which eats up most of your board functions that you would want to use for other stuff..

8): CD/Vinyl Audio Loops via Zero 4's internal sound card: Why can't I take CD audio or time code... Send it to a pc to add pc effects to, or control a program, and get that processed audio back on the same channel.. When you select I/O in lets say ableton you can select Zero 4 channel input and channel output.. So like I said that audio should be able to be routed directly pre-fader to the pc then pre-fader back...

9): Effect parameter mute when changing Time dial: In some effects if you change time on the fly you get some weird sounding stuff... I don't know if there can be anything done about that..

10): Audible Pop when changing effects: If you have effects on and change them mid stroke you will get a audible pop.. This is not detrimental to the channel faders for you do not ever normally do this.. However if you want to effect over a sample that is already playing this becomes a real problem..

11): EQ Selector output change: (edit thanks Seegweed) When changing from EQ to Isolator, to Filter, even with all parameters set at zero (middle), there is an audible change in sound level. (when doing this on the fly.... This brings us back to (zero edit - Eq status... see my comments below)

12): ZERO EDIT: Absolutely pointless...

Fader setting.. Ok you can change the curve (very cool).. But if you happen to bump fader control knob it goes back to normal... (not cool, not cool, not cool) Also why can't you set your own custom slopes for the curve control knobs..

EQ Status... Ok they are all set the the same thing... Via the knob on the front of the unit.. If I need to see that I will bend over and look at the knob on the front of the unit... You should be able to change these and have it set... Like 1/4 to filter, and 2/3 to isolator... Most likely a feature of the zero 8 because I saw a picture somewhere where they were different on each channel...

Audio I/O setting... Ok not enough to change here to get it to do what I think it should do.. (See point 8)

Ok but why is this useless.. Because apparently you are suppose to be able to send changes to the zero 4's memory... I don't see a button to do that... Never seen a prompt saying sending data only receiving data... The only save I see is to save the info in a file to your hard drive.. What if I am not hooked up to my pc every time I dj.. Then I guess any changes I made are null and void when not tethered to my pc..



So can someone from Korg, preferably Jerry, answer my question please?

Hello everyone!

Just 3 days ago I bought my new Korg Zero4.
The most of all Im disspointed about the sound of the mixer, when I play vinyl records through phono inputs. They are REALLY BAD.
The bass is really flat! I was really dissapointed cause in the all Korgs infos there are mentioned High sound standarts about this mixer.
BUT I tryed one trick: I sticked my turntables to my old Numark mixer which sounds great and then Numark sticked to Korg Zero CD/Line input.
If the sound goes not through phono inputs - I like the way my Korg sounds..

BUT what to do with Phono inputs then>? is they faulty?


Maybe someone could forward this issue to Korg!


Peace!
subterFUSE
Full Member
Posts: 116
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 2:59 am

Post by subterFUSE »

Please try the following before you toss your mixer out.


Connect turntables to Phono inputs on Zero mixer.
Select Phono on one of your channels on the mixer.
Turn the channel gain on that channel up to about 3 o'clock.
Turn the gains/volume on your speakers way down.
Play the record on your turntable.
Increase the master volume on the mixer until you get the VU meters moving, almost reaching the clipping point but kept just below.
Now increase the volume on your speakers until it gets as loud as possible without distortion.
Then turn down your master voume on the mixer to your comfortable listening level.


This should increase your signal levels and hopefully improve your bass response.



Try this out, and let me know if it helps.
ivarzz
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 8:10 pm
Location: Latvia, Riga

Post by ivarzz »

subterFUSE wrote:Please try the following before you toss your mixer out.


Connect turntables to Phono inputs on Zero mixer.
Select Phono on one of your channels on the mixer.
Turn the channel gain on that channel up to about 3 o'clock.
Turn the gains/volume on your speakers way down.
Play the record on your turntable.
Increase the master volume on the mixer until you get the VU meters moving, almost reaching the clipping point but kept just below.
Now increase the volume on your speakers until it gets as loud as possible without distortion.
Then turn down your master voume on the mixer to your comfortable listening level.


This should increase your signal levels and hopefully improve your bass response.



Try this out, and let me know if it helps.

waa!! it should not be so!
Today I was at local Korg dealer and we tested the second unit of Korg Zero4 - the same issues with completely other serial number and LOT number.
They will take my mixer back and will send both mixers back to Korg.
Im not an audiophile, but the vinyl should sound good. heh. we tested also the same setup with cheap denon mixer - compare with Korg - Denon sounded brilliant!

Now Im considering on these 2 mixers:
Mackie d4 Pro or Ecler EVO5 (which is 2 times more expensive).
Mackie does not have a midi - thats the only minus. But I have cheap midi controller Evolution UC-33e.

Korg was a really toy for me. so many functions, but the main thing that audio mixer should own - it is sound quality, and only after that goes
efx and other stuff.


Best regards to all of you!
I'm leaving the Korg society :) ... but im thinking of Korg Kaoss! I hope it will be less buggie!
ivarzz
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 8:10 pm
Location: Latvia, Riga

Korg vs Ecler - Ecler won

Post by ivarzz »

Now I am happy owner of Ecler Evo-5.

The sound is the best I have heard so far. no glitches at all.
subterFUSE
Full Member
Posts: 116
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 2:59 am

Re: Korg vs Ecler - Ecler won

Post by subterFUSE »

ivarzz wrote:Now I am happy owner of Ecler Evo-5.

The sound is the best I have heard so far. no glitches at all.
Glad to hear you are pleased now, even though I believe your sound quality issues were due to improper levels on your mixer and speakers.

Regardless, I hope Korg will take notice of experiences like yours for future reference. They must provide more clear documentation with their products to inform users of the proper use and setup. Allen & Heath does an outstanding job with their Owner Manuals. Korg could stand to learn from A&H on that.
Superchibisan
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:58 pm

Post by Superchibisan »

i love the way my zero4 sounds :)

on all formats. crystal clear!
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