Alternative to MOSS stepped pitch bend(glissando)

[fijaicairo]

Hi all,
I recently sold my Extreme with MOSS and I'm missing the stepped pitch bends you can do with the MOSS. Is there a way to do this on the M3?
I reckon I could probably use KARMA but I'm yet to get my head around it and I doubt it will give me the immediacy of the joy stick.

Thanks

[georgeinar]

I don't know if this will do it, but I know if you do things like pitch bend and other joystick/ribbon changes while in a recording quantized resolution other than high e.g., 1/8 1/4 then the pitch bend or whatever you did also resolves to that and does give a 'stepped' effect, meaing it's not actually a smooth transition. I use this technique sometimes, though usually I record the notes quantized and then overdub with my joystick movement in high resolution.

[MIDIguru]

I know the effect you're after. I used to have a Z1 and loved the stepped brass falls. Here's what to do to get any program to have stepped pitch bend:

You can achieve this effect with the AMS Mixer (page 6). Set the Mixer Type to Quantize. Set AMS A to JS X (Joystick X Axis). Select the number of steps you want (fewer steps = more obvious stair stepping)

Then on the OSC Pitch (Page 2, 2nd tab) at the top of the page on the right, set the AMS to AMS Mixer (1 or 2, which ever one you set up for quantize) and play around with the Intensity.

Make sure the JS(+X and -X) are zeroed out or a normal smooth pitch bend will stack on top of the stepped pitch bend. It's kind of a neat effect though.

[fijaicairo]

Thanks for your response. I'll give the AMS mixer technique a go as soon as I get behind the m3 and let you know how I fare.

[fijaicairo]

Thanks for the sequencer tip. Unfortunately korg sequencers just kill my flow so I never use them.

[fijaicairo]

So I did the following in the AMS mixer page
Mixer Type = Quantize
AMS A = JS X
Number of steps = 12

On OSc/Pitch Page
JS(+X) = 0
JS(-X) = 0
AMS = AMS Mixer 1
Intensity = 12.00
and it all worked like a charm.
Thanks again.

[MIDIguru]

Doesn't seem quite like the Prophecy and Z1 though. I think there was some retriggering magic going on in the modeling engine. I'm trying to figure out how to get the Amp Env to retrigger for each step. I might be able to get Karma to retrigger notes using Manual Advance (controlled by the pitch bender).

[fijaicairo]

I think you may be right about the sound Guru but this will do for now.
I have yet to delve into Karma not even sure where to start and it doesn't help that the manual is PDF. Manuals galore, yet another thing I miss about the extreme.

[Gonga]

I own a Triton Extreme, and I can't stand the stepping artifacts on it or the MOSS! I would be very grateful if you would please answer a few questions.

1. How smooth are the M3's pitch bends?

2. Does anyone have a sample I can hear?

3. If I were to control the M3M with my extreme, would I hear smooth bends?

4. Has anybody heard of zippering effects with the M3 when using another controller?

Thank you in advance!

I just might have to trade for an M3!

[fijaicairo]

I dont hear a zippering but let me know the kind of sound you want to hear and I'll record something for you

[MIDIguru]

I own a Triton Extreme, and I can't stand the stepping artifacts on it or the MOSS! I would be very grateful if you would please answer a few questions.

1. How smooth are the M3's pitch bends?

2. Does anyone have a sample I can hear?

3. If I were to control the M3M with my extreme, would I hear smooth bends?

4. Has anybody heard of zippering effects with the M3 when using another controller?

I just checked the pitch bend and at common settings (+/- 2 semitones) it doesn't seem steppy. When you crank it up to an octave or more it gets very steppy. What you can do is very similar to the above induced stepping using the AMS Mixer (a feature that is lacking in the Triton range).

Instead of using the AMS Mixer to add steppy-ness, use the Smoothing to sort of remove it. Set the Atack and Decay to somewhere between 50 and 60. What the smoothing does is add a lag to the controller, so that it slows down the pitch bend. What I noticed is that the Pitch Bender is smoother when moving the joystick slowly, but when you speed up, it gets steppy. AMS modulation maxes out at an octave, so if you want more than an octave you can stack the standard pitch bend on top of the AMS bend for 24 semitones. For some reason the standard octave (which is steppy on its own) sounds good on top of the smoothed AMS pitch bend.

3. If I were to control the M3M with my extreme, would I hear smooth bends?

Since this technique is done at the Program level, rather than the Global controls level, it will still be smooth with an external controller.

[Gonga]

Thanks guys. I really appreciate your help.

What I'd love to hear are samples of pure, high-frequency single oscillator tones being pitch bent a minor third (3 semitones). Under these circumstances the stepping is most pronounced. The stepping would be even more pronounced if you used a greater interval, but I typically use 3 semitones so that would be a realistic test.

I use pitch bend a lot. I use it for all my vibrato as well as pitch bend. When I play an electric "guitar" type sound, I do set the downward pitch bend to an octave to give a whammy bar effect.

Do you think the AMS is effective in smoothing bends and pitch bend vibrato under use, or does it add lag that makes fast bends and vibratos impractical?

[Gonga]

fyi, I own a Moog Voyager rack mount analog synth. To say I love the synth is a gross understatement. The thing sounds so vastly superior to any virtual analog it's not even a fair comparison.

Unfortunately though, the rack model has to be controlled with a midi keyboard, and when I bend pitch the Voyager produces stepping artifacts. it's such a shame that an authentic analog synth of such quality has to have these artifacts simply because of the limitations of a digital midi control system. I'm a member of their forum (a very impressive bunch) and I can tell you that Moog in fact is looking at ways to fix the problem as we speak. Perhaps they are looking at systems like the AMS to do this.

Thanks again for your help. You guys are fantastic!

[fijaicairo]

Gonga, I recorded the pitch bend. Its only 1.8 mb zipped so I can email it to you if you pm me your addy.

[Gonga]

Thank you so much for those recordings fijaicairo.

The M3 sounds sweet - the bends are very smooth compared with my Triton Extreme, my Novation X-Station and my Alesis QS8.

Was the AMS mixer smoothing the sound, or was that the way it sounds without the AMS mixer?

I guess I should have gotten an M3 instead of the Triton, because pitch bending is absolutely central to my playing. But the TE is still a great resource of sounds, so I guess I'll probably keep it anyway.

Now I have to wonder what my Minimoog Voyager rack mount would sound like if controlled by an M3. I wonder if the AMS mixer can smooth the midi pitch bend message, or if that smoothing has to be done by the sound generating unit itself? I suspect the latter.