Confounded by Combis

[jimmied999]

Hey guys,

I've had my M373 for several months but it's my first Korg board so I'm still a bit of a newbie. I'm only now getting serious about trying to figure out how to make and edit combis. I'm previously used to the "Alesis way" for combis (mixes) and it's not anywhere close the Korg way.

I've searched the forum and can't find this particular problem, so here goes: When trying to make a combi from scratch I can't figure out why the first program copied into the combi works fine, but when I try to add subsequent programs, they don't produce any sound - or the new program "takes over" and is the only sound produced in the combi, even though it's on a different track than the first program.

If I start with an existing combi, I seem to fare better with changing programs within the combi and getting the sounds to come out as intended. But then there are obviously limitations as to how many FX or other settings the combi will copy over from multiple programs. I haven't figured that out yet, but it seems to be part of the deal. I've gone through all the onscreen page menus, the Ops guide, parameter guide, etc, etc and am now to the point of hair pulling frustration.

I just want to be able to build a combi from scratch and understand what can and cannot be done with it.

Thanks for any insight you can offer, or please point me to the right learning source!

[kid_nepro_2002]

Hi Jimmy,

Each of the sixteen parts that can make up a combi is by default on a different midi channel (1--16). That is why your only hearing part one. It's the only part that's on midi channel one. You need to change the other parts that you want to use to midi channel one in order to hear them as you play the keyboard. The other fifteen midi channels are used to trigger KARMA or the drum track which is how we get all that cool stuff happening at the same time.

Best to start simply by programming a split on channel one. Split the keyboard at middle C (c4) and have a piano sound on top and a bass on the bottom. To do this all you have to do a change part two to midi channel one and choose your programs. Put the piano patch on part one and bass patch on program two.

In combi mode, go to: Timbre Parameter/Midi OSC to set the midi channel for each part and: Key/Vel Zone to set the key zones for how you want to split the keyboard. That should get you started.

Been meaning to write more about this at my blog. I'll try and post something soon.

Hope this helps! Good luck.

Proton
www.kidnepro.com

[georgeinar]

I won't pretend I know how to do this either, but I do suggest disecting the available combis to see if you can discover the tricks going on in there. One huge purpose in stock combis is to demo all the variations this baby can do so it would be helpful to check them out in great detail. Pick one you like and dig in.

[Synthoid]

I do suggest disecting the available combis to see if you can discover the tricks going on in there.

That's one of the best ways to learn the M3--take what's already working well and learn from it!

I've made some interesting variations from existing combis. Creating a program from scratch isn't that difficult, but building a combi from the ground up--with KARMA--is quite a feat. Maybe next month...

[EJ2]

The suggestion to "reverse engineer" combis to assist in developing an understanding of what goes into the construction of the same is very helpful. I strongly recommend this approach before attempting to design your own.

Once you get a better handle on what is going on in a fully "KARMA-fied" combi, you might want to make a cursory plan before/while you are experimenting with your own combi designs.

Here is something I've posted over at KLF. It's a simple combi planning sheet that you can use as starting points. http://www.karma-lab.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13258

In addition, there are 2 tutorials in the Tutorials section at KLF that might be helpful even though they were written for the old red Karma. This first is a more detailed document written by Paul Osborn outlining the construction of one of his Chemistry combis. http://www.karma-lab.com/forum/showthread.php?t=984

The second is a much simpler basic explanation to set up a simple combi with one Module of drums running and one voice (program) armed so that you can play/improvise over top of the drums. You can substitute an M3 drum GE in place of the one described for the Karma. The concepts and strategies are basically the same. http://www.karma-lab.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5087

Hope that helps for now.
Cheers,
Eric

[jimmied999]

thanks everyone! I'll try the suggestions when I get home and report back.

[EJ2]

thanks everyone! I'll try the suggestions when I get home and report back.

Give yourself a ton of time before you report back. Basically, designing a decent/workable fully KARMA-fied combi is like playing chess on multiple levels. Trust me, you are going to need lots of experience in manipulating parameters. You will need to be patient while you make mistakes, look for corrections and test these out. However, this is a very worthwhile learning process. So, stick with it.
Cheers,
Eric

[tritex4]

When trying to make a combi from scratch I can't figure out why the first program copied into the combi works fine, but when I try to add subsequent programs, they don't produce any sound - or the new program "takes over" and is the only sound produced in the combi, even though it's on a different track than the first program.

When listening to sounds internally, set the other channels to either 01G or Gch.
01G is the default channel set in Global.
So basically to turn the tone generator on, use Gch or whatever the Global MIDI channel is.

or the new program "takes over" and is the only sound produced in the combi, even though it's on a different track than the first program.

Use the mixer to adjust the volume of the subsequent sounds. You may also want to adjust key zones or velocity zones to
get the programs to sound and respond the way you want. Not to mention, other settings and parameters.


I too, would suggest studying the combi structures. Korg has some complex stuff going on,
so it may take some time to figure out what's going on.

[QuiRobinez]

Creating combi's on the M3 is not that hard to do if you know your way around the menu system. I've created an article in the karma-lab wiki site for combi creation. This is a 'how to' article for creating combi's on the M3 from scratch.

It guides you through the most basic parameters for combi creation.

you can find the guide here: http://karma-lab.wikidot.com/korg-m3:cr ... irst-combi

[EJ2]

Hi Jimmy,
The wiki that Robin pointed you to provides some helpful basic tips to start exploring and designing your own combis from scratch. To be sure, however, when you investigate/reverse engineer some of the more powerful and "fully KARMA-fied" combis in the M3 presets (especially those designed by Stephen Kay, Paul Osborn et al), you'll find that as you dig deeper, there are multiple layers of pages and parameters not described in the wiki. Don't get me wrong. I honestly believe that Robin's advice is one of the best places to start. Just the same, to fully exploit KARMA technology, you need to know that there is a hell of a lot more going on behind the scenes (no pun intended). So, again, as I said, be patient with your learning and don't give up.
Cheers,
Eric

[Synthoid]

when you investigate/reverse engineer some of the more powerful and "fully KARMA-fied" combis in the M3 presets (especially those designed by Stephen Kay, Paul Osborn et al), you'll find that as you dig deeper, there are multiple layers of pages and parameters not described in the wiki

Just like an onion! Karma has so many "layers" to learn. One thing for sure, you won't get tired of working with it.

I've done some wonderful arrangements of Christmas songs using KARMA combinations. As a matter of fact, this evening is my "debut" playing them at a small concert in a local music store.