Harpsichord sound on current Korg keyboards.

Aussie-Andy · Post by **Aussie-Andy** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:01 am

Rather than including this in my previous post I thought I'd ask this question seperately as I believe it warrants it.

I mentioned that Korg appear to keep recycling old samples, as well as falling behind the competition in terms of good acoustic sounds.

I don't care as much about strings, brass, guitars etc, as I do about core keyboard instrument sounds. Korg has considerably improved it's Grand Piano sounds. As well as electro-mechanical keys such as EP's and Clav's, (the Hammond's could do with some updating though).

Don't get me wrong, there are some awesome sounds in the Korg library at present, I wouldn't have bought one it there weren't. But one sound stands out to me as ancient and quite frankly, utter rubbish.

The Harpsichord, (previously known as the HarpsiKorg). What I wouldn't give for decent samples of single and double string settings on a Korg instrument. The only time the current one is almost passable is in a combi, buried under layers of strings and woodwinds. But as a solo instrument, it's unbearable. Whilst it's never going to be given the priority reserved exclusively for the Piano. I actually prefer to play Harpsichord over Piano and get upset when it's treated as insignificant and unworthy of a sound that's any more than a vague approximation.

I have a couple of questions for the forum.

- who else agrees with me ?
- do you use or desire good Harpsichord sounds in your music ?
- how high do you rate it on your wish list as something Korg should improve with some urgency ?
- out of curiosity, does the Oasys have better Harpsichord samples than the M3/M50 ? If so, how much of an improvement are they ?

Please Korg would you fix this on your next workstation, it's long overdue.

kikedeolivos · Post by **kikedeolivos** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:32 pm

Aussie-Andy wrote:
- who else agrees with me ? Somehow because I'm not fond of that sound as I'm of Organs.
- do you use or desire good Harpsichord sounds in your music ? NO
- how high do you rate it on your wish list as something Korg should improve with some urgency ? 1 to 10? 1 (to me)
- out of curiosity, does the Oasys have better Harpsichord samples than the M3/M50 ? If so, how much of an improvement are they ? No idea

Please Korg would you fix this on your next workstation, it's long overdue.

nspirit · Post by **nspirit** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:28 am

I would appreciate Korg updating the sound of the harpsichord.

Rosen Sound · Post by **Rosen Sound** » Wed May 11, 2011 10:51 pm

reviving old thread

get a roland JV 1080 and get the SRX orchestral. the harpsichord on it will make you crap your pants!

I have it in triton format on my website (see signature)

listen to it!

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3657402/Harpsichord.mp3

Chriskk · Post by **Chriskk** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 7:44 am

get a roland JV 1080 and get the SRX orchestral. the harpsichord on it will make you crap your pants!

For the JV1080 one would need a Super Session card. The harpsichord sounds on the Roland expansion board are the BEST I've ever heard. Nothing else comes even close.

Gargamel314 · Post by **Gargamel314** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:05 pm

Aussie-Andy wrote: I have a couple of questions for the forum.

- who else agrees with me ?
- do you use or desire good Harpsichord sounds in your music ?
- how high do you rate it on your wish list as something Korg should improve with some urgency ?
- out of curiosity, does the Oasys have better Harpsichord samples than the M3/M50 ? If so, how much of an improvement are they ?

Please Korg would you fix this on your next workstation, it's long overdue.

I realize this is a very old post, but thought i'd add my input anyway.

I always liked the harpsichord sound on the 01/Wfd. I do think the M3/M50 patches are better sounding than the Trinity/Triton ones, i don't know if they're the same or not. I would say the OASYS and KRONOS have better sounds than on the EDS boards, because of their use of the STR-1 engine, I would assume that they are the same sample source though. My question is... other than baroque and classical period music, what would be the use of harpsichord sounds? are there any, besides possibly making a cool synth program with them? I've never really needed to use any of them in my years of making music w/ keyboards.

Rosen Sound · Post by **Rosen Sound** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:10 pm

they are excellent for metal.
The roland JV SRX orchestral has the bombest harpsi.

Believe me... harpsichords can be very useful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHVP2anxbH8

Gargamel314 · Post by **Gargamel314** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:15 pm

hmmm, never thought of that application!

billbaker · Post by **billbaker** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:56 am

"... excellent for metal..."

Yeah, but at that point are you looking for a truly realistic harpsichord - as OP appears to be? Or would a more harpsi-synth-y tone work better for finding a niche in the mix?

I remember that the DX-7, when it first came out, was hailed as the "killer" of the Rhodes and Wurlitzer eletro-mechanical pianos... as soon as someone made that statement, someone else argued that DX lacked "balls" and sounded just plain "wrong". But others used the "wrong" EP sounds to great effect in a wide variety of settings. Maybe this is a case like that one.

[Interesting to note that Kronos (and Stage Pianos by Korg and other makers) have not only gone a long way to restoring "real" EPs to the sound palate, but those of the "real" DX as well.]

-----------

Using synth for harpsi sounds - especially for baroque music - starts out extremely compromised - more so than piano, because less attention has been paid to trying to get the sound "right". Whats more, right and real harpsichord sounds are even harder to pin down because of the huge range of tones in individual instruments - harpsichords are as wildly varied as acoustic guitars or violins.

What's missing on many acoustic sounds (not just harpsi) are the mechanical noises inherent in the physical instruments. For example, if you had the option to add pad noise (click) to your flute samples and a "humanizing" in-breath on key let-off there would be a much higher sense of "real". But outside a solo session in a studio setting most of those are lost to competing volume and wash.

For "real-er" harpsichord; plectrum sound and strength, the return glitch of key let-off of the quill returning to play position, the ability to add 4/8/16 string doubling -- all features of real harpsichords -- you need to really know the sound before you can start programming it. Some elements (string doubling and general tone [EQ]) are more easily programmable/variable than others. If you're willing to program the noises needed you could, perhaps, get a realer harpsichord out of the M-50, at least in combination mode.

Kronos' Plucked and Struck String Synth may be able to cover some of the less common harpsichord elements within program mode.

We'll see (or hear) soon.

BB

Rosen Sound · Post by **Rosen Sound** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:19 am

billbaker wrote:"... excellent for metal..."

Yeah, but at that point are you looking for a truly realistic harpsichord - as OP appears to be? Or would a more harpsi-synth-y tone work better for finding a niche in the mix?

BB

Definitely real.

go to the 5 minute mark
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tn58-Nl9NYw

Theres a harpsi shop in eagle rock, a town near me....

When i heard this harpsi i had to have it, luckily my friend have a JV 1080 with it and i sampled it (check my site.) and then I did some midi'd version of some classical pieces with it and created a WAV and sent it to the owners of that store.(midi works since harpsis have no velocity)

they started talking about how much body it had and how excellent that harpsichord sounded and they would love to know the maker. I emailed back that it was a synthesizer.

They responded saying

"Wow... that definitely fooled us.... that sounds excellent"

Chriskk · Post by **Chriskk** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:34 pm

I always liked the harpsichord sound on the 01/Wfd. I do think the M3/M50 patches are better sounding than the Trinity/Triton ones, i don't know if they're the same or not. I would say the OASYS and KRONOS have better sounds than on the EDS boards, because of their use of the STR-1 engine

The harpsichord sounds of the Oasys and Kronos are a disgrace to the beautiful classic instrument.

billbaker · Post by **billbaker** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:04 pm

"...a disgrace to the beautiful classic instrument."

Wow.

Guess there's nothing quite like having a definite opinion, Chriskk.

Robbinhood: Not to pick a fight or anything but while the harpsi in your cited example sounds terrific, it's not "real" to my ear. It is BIG bordering on huge, it's consistent in tone and temperment, and clear throughout the entire range - three things I've not often heard on a real harpsichord. They are also the exact qualitiess that make it perfect for the song it was used on.

Let me say again - that's a great sound, and a cool application for it... what, Baroque Metal?... but I don't think you could get that sound, especially in the low register, out of a wood and metal instrument because real strings have to be a smaller diameter (especially compared to a piano) in order for the plectrum mechanism to work. And I don't believe they would give you that nice crunchy low end stab unless they were synthesized. In this instance sampling's (or ROMpling's) shortcomings may actually be an advantage because the synths architecture imposes a level of order on the inconsistencies inherent in a real instrument.

BB

Chriskk · Post by **Chriskk** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 10:46 pm

Kronos' Plucked and Struck String Synth may be able to cover some of the less common harpsichord elements within program mode.

I wouldn't bet my money on it. Among the Kronos 9 engines, STR-1 is the weakest. Sounds generated by it are mediocre at best.

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Harpsichord sound on current Korg keyboards.

Harpsichord sound on current Korg keyboards.

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Re: Harpsichord sound on current Korg keyboards.