Can the R3 self-oscillate?

tpantano · Post by **tpantano** » Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:24 am

I'm thinking it can't, but this is a cool feature (glitch?) of older synths IMO.

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:36 am

Yes. If you set resonance to 126-127, you can use the 'Punch' parameter as an impulse to set it going. Why not just try it?

Punch is actually pre-filter, even though it shows up in the Amp section, on the Radias at least. It would be great for physical modelling if the punch level could be modulated in virtual patch or by velocity, but it can't. You can however shape the response using filter 1, and having filter 2 self oscillate, assuming you don't want a funky inbetween-setting self-oscillating filter that has a filtered impulse (another thing that would have been handy - reversing the order of the filters).

Anyway, this is one of the hand ways of triggering the comb filter into self oscillation using the comb or band pass filter.

tpantano · Post by **tpantano** » Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:48 am

X-Trade wrote:Yes. If you set resonance to 126-127, you can use the 'Punch' parameter as an impulse to set it going. Why not just try it?

Punch is actually pre-filter, even though it shows up in the Amp section, on the Radias at least. It would be great for physical modelling if the punch level could be modulated in virtual patch or by velocity, but it can't. You can however shape the response using filter 1, and having filter 2 self oscillate, assuming you don't want a funky inbetween-setting self-oscillating filter that has a filtered impulse (another thing that would have been handy - reversing the order of the filters).

Anyway, this is one of the hand ways of triggering the comb filter into self oscillation using the comb or band pass filter.

wait, so is that annoying high and off-pitch sound I hear when i set punch to max and resonance to 127 self-oscillation?

I was hoping it'd be more of the bassy SO i've seen in vids of the ms2000, maxikorg etc.

I'm probably doing it wrong anyways, any examples of the patch parameters ud set for self-oscillation that sounds good?

Yatmandu · Post by **Yatmandu** » Sat Mar 20, 2010 3:56 am

hmmmm, digital self-oscillation, not sure that's something that will sound all that good?

danielb · Post by **danielb** » Sat Mar 20, 2010 9:10 am

X-Trade wrote:Yes. If you set resonance to 126-127, you can use the 'Punch' parameter as an impulse to set it going. Why not just try it?

Punch is actually pre-filter, even though it shows up in the Amp section, on the Radias at least. It would be great for physical modelling if the punch level could be modulated in virtual patch or by velocity, but it can't. You can however shape the response using filter 1, and having filter 2 self oscillate, assuming you don't want a funky inbetween-setting self-oscillating filter that has a filtered impulse (another thing that would have been handy - reversing the order of the filters).

Anyway, this is one of the hand ways of triggering the comb filter into self oscillation using the comb or band pass filter.

That actually works!

I'm still trying to get my head around exactly how it works. What does "punch" actually do, as opposed to what does it sound like?

Previously I was getting a similar effect using a small amount of noise as a carrier for the self oscillation.

BTW, if you turn up the drive, it will morph the sine wave into a square wave. The Radias is certainly full of surprises.

danielb · Post by **danielb** » Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:23 am

PS: Using parallel filter mode you can actually get both filters to self oscillate together, making two separate sounds.

axxim · Post by **axxim** » Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:45 am

Hi,

this are the basic parameters to get the self oscillation to match the tone scale, which can be tested with the bandpas or comb filter

Resonance = Max
Keytrack = +1.00
Cutoff = 60 or each multiple of 12 (36, 48, 72 etc., depending what octave you want)
EG Int and Velocity = 0 (later you can experiment with them)

You can set a little noise to and the oscillators to 0 to hear and experiment with the self oscillating results.

Yes tpantano, this probably was the effect you got with your Toy Piano. In fact you will hear that with these settings, the comb or bandpass filter sounds like a Pipe tube, being the Cutoff its lenght (tone) ant the noise is the blowing you put on them. Even if it is more complex than this, Resonance and the filter type could be seen as the tube's material properties and its ability to oscillate (resonate) with that tone.

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Sat Mar 20, 2010 5:49 pm

danielb wrote:
X-Trade wrote:Yes. If you set resonance to 126-127, you can use the 'Punch' parameter as an impulse to set it going. Why not just try it?

Punch is actually pre-filter, even though it shows up in the Amp section, on the Radias at least. It would be great for physical modelling if the punch level could be modulated in virtual patch or by velocity, but it can't. You can however shape the response using filter 1, and having filter 2 self oscillate, assuming you don't want a funky inbetween-setting self-oscillating filter that has a filtered impulse (another thing that would have been handy - reversing the order of the filters).

Anyway, this is one of the hand ways of triggering the comb filter into self oscillation using the comb or band pass filter.
That actually works!

I'm still trying to get my head around exactly how it works. What does "punch" actually do, as opposed to what does it sound like?

Previously I was getting a similar effect using a small amount of noise as a carrier for the self oscillation.

BTW, if you turn up the drive, it will morph the sine wave into a square wave. The Radias is certainly full of surprises.

The 'punch' basically adds a click right at the start of the note waveform. if you turn down the oscillators and just have punch, you should be able to hear it quite clearly.

When fed into the filter with high resonance, it is effectively like whacking a resonator of any kind (pipe, tine, string, etc). You can get some quite good EP sounds by passing this through drive or pickup shaping, using an envelope on the shaper depth (you'd have to fully use all the key/velocity scaling on the envelope to get a realistic expression. as I also mentioned previously, you can also use filter 1 to darken the 'punch' impulse and control that through velocity to get a darker sound too. In that case, filter 2 has to be used as the resonator.

For a realistic decay, i usually use between 120-126 resonance on the filter.