What's happened with unison and chorus?

[ultravvox]

Help me please. I'm new to R3 so sorry for maybe stupid questions...

I've used many VA synths including MS2000B and old MicroKorg, and R3's unison mode and chorus effect sounds very strange for me. Maybe I'm doing something wrong?

For example, I use new Unison mode on OSC1. As I increase unison level it starts sound somewhat detuned (OK), but then it sounds not detuned, but as with some kind filter or modulation, and finally unison "returns", but at such insane level, so it makes preset unusable.

Standard "polyphony-killing" unison in timbre setup works same way, it adds only a bit of nice detuning and then sound again becomes totally nasty. There is no "fat" unison level in between.

And the same thing with chorus. A bit of nice rich sound and then as I increase chorus level it becomes nasty and "drunk", and not thick and beautiful as it was for example on MicroKorg.

What's wrong? Is there some secrets that will make detune/unison/chorus sound good or these problems are in R3's sound nature? I try to make sounds from scratch, and to change existing presets, it's all the same

I've checked R3 demos in Internet, my R3 sounds exactly same way, so I don't think it is broken or it has bad firmware, or something else.

[X-Trade]

The R3/Radias/MKXL MMT engine has an enhanced definition and clarity in the higher end of the spectrum which I believe leads to a percieved increase in 'brightness' and sometimes a synthetic 'plastic' sound.

Compared to the MS2000 and MK which were specifically modelled after the MS20 analog synth sound characteristics, MMT is quite 'clinical' and 'scientific'.

That said, it can be livened up a lot.
If you want a 'fatter' patch, here are a few suggestions:
- Bass boost of 2 or 3dB on the timbre EQ. Alternatively a trebble cut of about the same will give you a darker character without the risk of clipping
- Pitch oscillator 2 an octave above or below, to create an octave effect. You can still detune the two oscillators to some degree effectively
- Use the drive. turn Drive (not waveshaper) On and turn up the Depth to about 16-27 (depending on taste). Depending on which kind of synth sound you are after, pre-filter drive will give you a smoother character good for Moog sounds, whilst post-filter drive will give you a harsher character like that of Korg's own MS-20 and its siblings.


You might think these are not directly related to detuning. And they're not. However particularly for oscillator detuning, drive characteristics define the way the two (or more) waveforms interact considerably. Similarly, The 'harshness' in the detuning could be because you are focusing on the higher end (subconsciously) because of the cleaner high-range output of these synths. That said, this isn't a bad thing for some sounds where you can make incredibly high notes that would sound like complete trash on some other digital synths.

[ultravvox]

Well, EQ and Drive really makes sound louder and more dense (though it becomes somewhat muddy). But problem is not with "thin" and "glassy" Korg sound, that I like. Problem is all detune modes sounds "toy-ish" with low level and becomes totally unusable when I try to increase it. I don't think it's OK when you can really use only 1-15 and not all 127 parameter levels.

Maybe there is some "overload" and distortion in signal path and AMP level must be not above than N, or something like this...

[X-Trade]

The oscillator detune mode starts each of the five 'virtual' oscillators in the same phase. So you get a very defined attack. I've used this for example with sine or triangle waves at a low detune level to emulate the decaying tone of an electric piano or a bass guitar string.

Anyway, setting the phase (control 2) round to the 50-75% level (60-90 I guess) mostly negates that. Or routing it to velocity (or an LFO?) to get a bit more variation rather than the same attack each time.

I agree that the 'cent' scale is a little course. I rarely go above 10 and almost never go above 12.

As for the 'chorus' effect, I've found the default parameters are not to my liking. I often increase the depth. But to be honest I prefer the Korg 'ensemble' effect.

[ultravvox]

Oh, thanks you so much! Unison phase and Ensemble effect was what I really need. That Virus-like "flavor" on low-pitched notes is so great.