Advanced envelope modulation on filter cutoff: mod seq?

winstonsmith · Post by **winstonsmith** » Tue Dec 28, 2010 3:58 pm

Hi all, I bought my Radias and am just getting back into production. It sounds amazing and I really look forward to using it. One thing I like to do is make very modulated growly baselines, the best example I can give is in this video where the gentleman uses NI Massive to achieve exactly what I mean:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SK1ocGVDibg

Sorry about the budget camera work but you’ll hear the patch is well worth it! It breaks down like this if you don’t want to watch it all, I am only interested in the modulation part in this thread:

Up to 1m10s he describes how he makes the waveform (unison, phaser etc)

At 1m10s he starts modulating that wave in a brilliant way by hooking up the filter to a bandpass then editing how that banpass is modulated - this last bit is what I am after.

I am looking at the mod sequencer first off, as I can add modulation to (e.g.) pitch, filter cutoff and resonance over a sync’d time, which is what the gentleman in the video is doing. Combine with the step sequencer too in some way(?)

Just wondering about some nice envelope curves I can utilise / make for myself for the modulation like the guy in the video uses? When you edit the timbre in the Sound Editor, you can see EG1/EG2/EG3 are pretty shapeable so it should be possible.

Go into "Global Edit" page in the Sound Editor and there is a velocity curve setting too, maybe could be used? Think the answer is the step / mod sequencer somehow.

So: how can I emulate what he does at 1m10s best on the Radias though please?

Thanks!

axxim · Post by **axxim** » Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:17 pm

Hi Winston,

well he is chaining 8 waves for the enveleope as far as I can see. Using the mod sequencer will be the only way to get near to it. Since it has only 16 steps you will not be able to simulate that envelope but maybe using it in alternate mode and combining it with a slow, note synced LFO you get a good result

winstonsmith · Post by **winstonsmith** » Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:05 am

Hi Axxim, could the 8 steps in the mod / step sequencer be used in the equivalent Radias patch? With each step linked to a bandpass filter's cutoff? Each step would also need it's own envelope... think it's possible?

And is there any way of finding / adding some funky envelope patterns or is there a limited set to choose from?

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:54 pm

There are three modulation sequencers. If your pattern is retriggering constantly (e.g. using the step sequencer or arp), you could use the modseqs to control the parameters of the filter envelope itself - namely attack, decay, and sustain, or perhaps the third one going straight to cutoff or resonance or reserved for something else.

winstonsmith · Post by **winstonsmith** » Wed Dec 29, 2010 7:38 pm

That's what I am talking about!

Now, can we get each of the mod seq steps to mirror each of the step sequencer steps? I suspect so.

One mod seq would have to be linked to the bandpass filter cutoff, that leaves two left.

How would you hook up the remaining two mod seq's to get some great enveloping? One working on the attack and one on the sustain/release or something?

Cheers!

meatballfulton · Post by **meatballfulton** » Thu Dec 30, 2010 2:28 pm

RTFM?

page 93

P12 MOD SEQ P12–2…4: SEQ1…SEQ3 1: Knob [None, Pitch…Pch6Int]

The A, D, S and R values for all of the EGs are available here as destinations.

Happy New Year!

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Thu Dec 30, 2010 5:07 pm

I did an experiment using this technique for a TB-style bassline. I think I'll record the result so I'll post it (and possibly the patch) up here later.

winstonsmith · Post by **winstonsmith** » Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:04 pm

meatballfulton wrote:RTFM? page 93

P12 MOD SEQ P12–2…4: SEQ1…SEQ3 1: Knob [None, Pitch…Pch6Int]

The A, D, S and R values for all of the EGs are available here as destinations.

Happy New Year!

Manual read but no dice! I tried to export my patch but it all of a sudden sounds really "weedy"? Anyway, what I did was:

1) Route each of the 3 mod seq's to EG1 attack, decay and sustain
2) In the patch editor, made a v-patch so that Cutoff of filter 1 (and resonance) are linked to EG1

Still sounds rubbish though? Shame when I exported, whatever fatness I did achieve seemed to go astray... but you can see how I have set the patch up - shouldn't this work if I tweak it enough?

The patch: http://www.sendspace.com/file/8x7nud

Happy New Year to you too!

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:23 pm

winstonsmith wrote: 2) In the patch editor, made a v-patch so that Cutoff of filter 1 (and resonance) are linked to EG1

You don't need to do this, it is a waste of a virtual patch.
Some things are hardwired so that you don't need to do virtual patch, namely:
-The Filter EG Int parameter (Filter 1, Filter 2 EG Intensity) controls the amount of EG1 routed to filter 1, 2.
-The Osc1 Control 2 parameter when in 'waveform' modulation mode. This for most oscillator waveforms controls the amount of LFO1 routed to Osc1 Control 1
-Keytrack for filter 1, 2. Controls the amount of keytrack routed to filter cutoff for filter 1, 2.
-Keytrack in the Amp section . Controls the amount of keytrack routed to amp level.

I know that little bit of panel between filter 1 and 2 can be a bit confusing because it controls parameter for filter 1 or filter 2 depending on the button, but you can set the parameters with the screen or editor instead.

I'm sorry I don't know why your sound lost its 'fatness'. Did you make sure that the modulation sequencer is turned on (button on the lefthand side somewhere). I might get around to looking at your patch later.

winstonsmith · Post by **winstonsmith** » Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:41 pm

Thanks for the input, Sir! Appreciated.

Don't know what happened when I exported the patch but when it was being edited it was booming, but then when I re-loaded it, it was all thin and weedy(?)

Anyway, you can atleast see the idea with what I uploaded and i think it should be the right idea (apart from the waste of the v-patch). But yeah, please please do have a look at the patch or try and re-create what happens in the video I linked as I think it's an amazing sound.

Thanks!

winstonsmith · Post by **winstonsmith** » Sun Jan 02, 2011 5:46 pm

Hi - thanks again for the advice. I twaeked away and got something going, what do you think?

http://www.sendspace.com/file/684rwi

And stick the "phase" all the way up to full on Osc 1 for a more lead type sound (and turn off the second timbre).

I still think I could be using the mod section more? Actually, the answer is to probaby use the other 2 timbres too and get a really fat patch going!