RH3 or "synth action"

Alp · Post by **Alp** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:46 pm

I am thinking of getting a Kronos.

I have played little keyboard, favouring guitar, but I can and do enjoy playing keyboard. All of my recent keyboard experience has been with non-weighted keys (M-50, Kawai K1 ii).

Do the weighted keys give you more control or feedback when playing, allowing you to better use velocity and after touch with weighted keys?

Is there an advantage to synth action keys.
Are they "faster" or do they bounce back sooner than weighted keys?

What do you feel the pros and cons are that would be important to someone who does not play too much keyboard?

Alp

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:17 pm

Yep, you've nailed it. Synth keys bounce back much faster. Weighted keys allow much better precision with velocity. Aftertouch is largely the same.

Alp · Post by **Alp** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:08 am

That simple huh?

Thanks

Alp

StephenKay · Post by **StephenKay** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:52 am

It's not quite that simple.

Weighted keys approximate the playing technique of a grand piano (or physical piano, anyway). As such, if you have not had experience playing a real piano, you may find them quite difficult to depress to the degree that you are used to with synth action keyboards. Any person who has NEVER played a real piano action keyboard, should (in my opinion) NOT purchase a weighted keyboard unless you try it in a store and decide you like it. In general, non-weighted keyboards (synth action) allow you to play much faster and smoother synth riffs, guitar riffs, organ riffs - it's only pianos that, for me, the weighted keyboard has an advantage. It's more like playing a real piano. Of course, this is the main reason many people buy it.....

Dave Ferris · Post by **Dave Ferris** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:08 am

To echo Stephen's post, if you're more of a "pianist" then a "keyboard player', chances are the weighted 88 or 73 would be more your thing.

To me the RH3 is not that heavy but then again I don't consider myself an organ or synth guy. I come from a long background of Acoustic pianos.

Best thing thing, obviously, is wait till they hit the stores and see which one appeals to you. You stated you don't play keyboard that much so I'm guessing the 61 might work best for you but again try both options first.

Personally I've got my eyes on the 73 for more of the gigging schlep factor. Get here already.........

peter_schwartz · Post by **peter_schwartz** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:31 am

To echo echo echo what's already been recommended, yes, a synth-action (non-weighted) is probably best. To your question about whether or not a weighted action is faster, I'd say no. Unless you've developed enough technique on weighted-action keys, they will tend to feel sluggish. And certain types of gestures on weighted actions can be downright injurious, like trying to play organ glisses or swipey ends to minimoog-style bass lines. Oh, and by "injurious" I'm not talking about anything terribly debilitating. Nothing like the kind of thing you'd want to call OSHA about, and definitely not enough to warrant writing to your congressman about, insisting that "there oughta be a law against weighted action keyboards because they're a menace to society". No, I'm just talking about needing to go to the drug store to get some nu-skin after trying a few takes of organ glisses on a weighted action. I know, I've been there, and I'm a pianist! But with keys being plastic and all, at least the blood wipes off easily enough.

Synth action. Definitely.

Penumbra · Post by **Penumbra** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:34 am

I'm quite agree with Mr. Kay even If I prefer weighted keys, shame that I couldn't find the Oasys 88 for decent price, that's why I've bought the 76 version 'cause of a very very good price. Sure I own also Korg SP-250 stage piano and an acoustic piano, but I'd really liked to have a weighted keys workstation. Well, you can't have everything from life, that's how it works. Isn't it guys?

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:35 am

I always asked myself why we don't get well done half-weighted keybeds which really deserve the name. I strongly dislike the alternative of a sloppy synth action keyboard (never played a good one besides my Access TI keyboard, which works surpsingly well) and a heavy, piano-like hammer action.

It's not only Pianos, but also EPianos which ask for a much better velocity control than most synth action keybeds provide. And even velocity sensitive synth sounds could be played more smooth and expressive in a controlled way with half-weighted action.

Since I'm used to play a Rhodes Mk I, it is not too hard for me to use something like RH73 hammer action, which seems to be not quite as heavy as that of some other stage pianos. But I really miss a well done semi-weighted keybed which gives you enough resistance and control, without letting you work too hard on fast runs and the like.

sani · Post by **sani** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:23 am

It's certainly a very subjective thing, but I liked the keybed on my old Kurzweil SP76 very much and it was a great semiweighted keyboard. It gave me the ability to play piano stuff very dynamically, but on the other side, it was fast enough and light enough to play other instrument types.
The japanese manufacturers unfortunately don't provide what I would call really semiweighted keybeds. You either get a synth type keybed (61 and 76 versions) which are to light for piano, or a full weighted keybed. Nothing in between.

Citizen Klaus · Post by **Citizen Klaus** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:20 pm

sani wrote:The japanese manufacturers unfortunately don't provide what I would call really semiweighted keybeds. You either get a synth type keybed (61 and 76 versions) which are to light for piano, or a full weighted keybed. Nothing in between.

I don't know -- I'm quite fond of the M3's synth action, personally. In fact, it was the primary factor in selling me on the M3 over a more conventional synth (I do most of my programming on the EXB-RADIAS). The M3's is probably the firmest semi-weighted keybed I've tried. The tactile feedback you get is great, particularly for someone unused to proper weighted actions.

master logic · Post by **master logic** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:45 pm

I'm really curious regarding the differences between Synth action & weighted keys. I'm from a techno background, but more soulful, melody & chord based music, as opposed to harder, bang bang styles & i'm really intrigued to know if my music would benefit from learning to play with weighted keys even with this style of music.

StephenKay · Post by **StephenKay** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:00 pm

master logic wrote:I'm really curious regarding the differences between Synth action & weighted keys. I'm from a techno background, but more soulful, melody & chord based music, as opposed to harder, bang bang styles & i'm really intrigued to know if my music would benefit from learning to play with weighted keys even with this style of music.

IMO, having one or the other, learning to play one or the other, is not going to affect the quality of the music. If you type a Word document with a cheap Dell keyboard, is it somehow different from a document produced with an expensive peripheral keyboard? No one can tell from listening to music whether a phrase was played on a weighted or semi-weighted or synth action keyboard! So it's strictly which one you feel more comfortable using. If every time you touch your weighted keyboard you're thinking about how much force is necessary to press the keys, vs. the phrase you are playing, that would be a clue that you should have gone with a synth action.

Otherwise, it's not going to be better for your music one way or the other... (Well, if you play and record a lot of solo piano, one could argue that you might get more "pianistic performances" out of a weighted... but conversely, if you play a lot of organ-related music, the weighted keyboard will make it more difficult to do "organistic" techniques...)

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:52 pm

Stephen,

your comparison has one weak point: typing on different computer keyboards has no velocity, and you can correct the typos. So the result will be fine anyway.

But on keyboards it's really not just as easy to feel comfortable. Of course I know that VERY experienced keyboarders like George Duke and the like, who have played about any kind of keyboard, adopt to any given situation faster than most of us. But even minimal differences disturb me more than I thought. The Roland Fantom G I play now, for example, has slightly shorter keys than the Fantom X I played before. It drove me nuts at first to get used to the resulting other key angle and push, especially with EPiano playing (4 velocoties prone to unwelcome jumps anyway), because as an advanced amateur, my control over (nearly) equal velocities with different fingers is limited under such conditions.

So when using a synth action keyboard, I don't like it when some notes show bigger velocity jumps than necessary, in part due to my limited finger control, yes, but to a bigger part due to a synth action keybed which often does not even offer a consistent velocity response throughout.

Well done half-weighted keys would be my choice, if I had one.
Next best for me is a not too hard to play weighted keyboard.
And since I need/want at least 73 keys, I don't even have any choice at all.

robinkle · Post by **robinkle** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:24 pm

I've been looking into different keybeds for a while. And I made some conclusions of how I prefer one over the other.

Choose Weighted Keys if you:
1. Want to strengthen your fingers.
2. Want the feeling of a real instrument/piano.
3. Want more keys.
4. Want to do piano lessons.

Choose Synth Action Keys if you:
1. Need a compact unit.
2. Like to do fast synth lead/solo playing.
3. Want the feeling of a synth.
4. Want to do organ/keyboard lessons.

For me I choose Weighted Keys because of:
1. Step 1,2 and 4.
2. I do not need a compact unit, Kronos will be my Master keyboard and main sound source.
3. I can play quick solo leads on the Kronos because the keys are lighter on the higher tones, so that is a fine compromise.
4. If I will get a second keyboard I will choose one compact unit with Synth Action Keys.

NOTE: Strengthening your fingers is nice not only to get stronger fingers, but also to make them more agile, and making it easier to control each finger individually.

alantunucci · Post by **alantunucci** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 2:13 am

StephenKay wrote:If every time you touch your weighted keyboard you're thinking about how much force is necessary to press the keys, vs. the phrase you are playing, that would be a clue that you should have gone with a synth action.

Or that you need more training, lol.

I think hammer-action keys help the development of your fingers. Personally, synth action keys don't help me at all: I think I screw my fingers if I keep playing with them.

People with proper training can do fast notes on hammer action keys, see Jordan Rudess, for example.

I would buy RH3, because of the improvement you'll get.