What would be the odds that....?

keywhiz61 · Post by **keywhiz61** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:48 pm

...I could use a Kronos live to replace my entire current set up? I know this is getting a bit ahead of myself and is maybe a better question (at this point) for Oasys owners but....

my current setup is:

Original Motif6
Roland A-37 controller

both of which drive a rack setup of:

Emu Proteus 2000 (with addtional Vintage Pro and Mo Phatt cards)
JV-1080
Emu B3 module with Neo Ventilator leslie sim.

Is the Kronos powerful and versatile enough to be the ONLY sound source I use while also controlling it with the Roland controller?

SpIdErWeB · Post by **SpIdErWeB** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:01 pm

Well, I do think the Kronos does sound "better" than the Motif 6, EMUs or JV... however, if you have some songs with very specific sounds, you might want to replace them to get exact same sounding.

Apparently Digital Sound Factory might consider to release the EMUs sounds for Oasys/Kronos as EXs (if Korg provides tools to build EXs). If not, you might need to use and import the SoundFont version.

Regarding the Motif and JV sounds, there's no library ready to be used, so you might want to try to reproduce the sound as close as possible with internal Kronos sounds (there's almost 12 Gb of sounds), use any free Soundfont from website such sf2midi... or sample your own patch/preset to build use them in the Kronos with the Roland Controller.

In conclusion, I would go for the Kronos...

my 2 cents,
Phil

Shakil · Post by **Shakil** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:46 pm

All of those are multimberal sound generators. So, if you were using a lot of multi-timberal sounds/parts, you may run out of them on Kronos. It has 16 parts. While you had access to more than 48 parts.

You may also run out of polyphony on the Kronos.

If you are just using few layers and are playing mostly solos in the band, then there shouldn't be a big problem.

keywhiz61 · Post by **keywhiz61** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:44 pm

Yes, I'm thinking mostly about polyphony issues, effects, and how well all the different synth engines work and play with others. (I'm assuming that this new board will SOUND better than most of my old stuff and besides, sounds and tones are subjective anyway. I find it silly to ask "does this board SOUND better than this one?" except maybe in some very specific cases.)

How many audio outputs are there on the board? And can anything/everything be routed to any of the outputs?

Also, are there any quirky issues that arise when hooking up another controller to the sound engines while still playing the Kronos keyboard?

Shakil · Post by **Shakil** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:52 pm

Don't have to worry about affects, because it's actually very flexible and powerful.

You will have to worry about editing though.... You can't edit sounds from a combi or sequencer. You have to stop and jump into program and worse for drums to global mode.

You can do a lot of mixing on the Kronos since it has EQs for each track, 12 effects processor with multiple tracks to an IFX processor, ( but one track can't go into multiple effects, and if routed to IFX, can't send dry signal to MFX.).. So, unless you wanted to record each of the sound modules, you don't really need multiple outs....

keywhiz61 · Post by **keywhiz61** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:59 pm

Sorry if I wasn't more clear--I'm talking about a live performance environment, not recording or sequencing.

I'm thinking that if I end up using only the Kronos for my sound source, then it might be advantageous to send some signals through separate outs for additional processing---perhaps I'll run the CX3 through the Neo Ventilator if I'm not that happy with the onboard leslie effect, for example. Or I may want to send the piano sound through another effects processor, etc.

Are there multiple outputs on the Kronos and can everything be routed to the any of the outputs? (I know that, for example on the Proteus module, the 2nd set of outputs are only 'dry'--as any sound routed through the effects system gets sent only to the main outputs.)

BillW · Post by **BillW** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:34 pm

keywhiz61 wrote:Sorry if I wasn't more clear--I'm talking about a live performance environment, not recording or sequencing.

I'm thinking that if I end up using only the Kronos for my sound source, then it might be advantageous to send some signals through separate outs for additional processing---perhaps I'll run the CX3 through the Neo Ventilator if I'm not that happy with the onboard leslie effect, for example. Or I may want to send the piano sound through another effects processor, etc.

Are there multiple outputs on the Kronos and can everything be routed to the any of the outputs? (I know that, for example on the Proteus module, the 2nd set of outputs are only 'dry'--as any sound routed through the effects system gets sent only to the main outputs.)

Well, I'm playing in a 70s/80s rock band with a single Fantom G6, so I'm betting you can do what you need with a single Kronos. We cover a ton of ground (Journey, Kansas, A-Ha, Yes, Rush, Whitesnake, Aerosmith, Genesis, Loverboy, Bon Jovi, Def Leppard, The Police, Pink Floyd, Tears for Fears, Asia, Toto, Night Ranger, Duran Duran, Ozzy Osbourne, GNR, etc) so getting the right sounds is sometimes a challenge, but I have sampled a lot of nice sounds from soft synths and my Motif XS6.

I have a Kronos on order and when it arrives, I will set about trying to replace my G6 with it. Mainly because most of the sounds I've sampled were "analog" sounds, DX7 sounds or organ sounds (from a CX3 that I sold recently). Those engines are built into the Kronos so my life should be even easier. I can't imagine needing a Ventilator with the CX3...that Leslie sim is pretty good.

GregC · Post by **GregC** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:35 pm

keywhiz61 wrote:...I could use a Kronos live to replace my entire current set up? I know this is getting a bit ahead of myself and is maybe a better question (at this point) for Oasys owners but....

my current setup is:

Original Motif6
Roland A-37 controller

both of which drive a rack setup of:

Emu Proteus 2000 (with addtional Vintage Pro and Mo Phatt cards)
JV-1080
Emu B3 module with Neo Ventilator leslie sim.

Is the Kronos powerful and versatile enough to be the ONLY sound source I use while also controlling it with the Roland controller?

I recently sold off my Extreme w/MOSS, XS7 and M3M to fund a Kronos.

I know the Vintage Pro has some really nice patches, same with the Mo, unique soundset.

But I think you can easily let go of 97% of the sounds in your rompler collection by getting a Kronos. Possibly keep the Ventilator. You will have to adjust or figure out to keep the flavor of the 3% from your old rig.

ozy · Post by **ozy** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:56 pm

If there's no financial hurry,

let your ears decide.

I mean: receive the kronos, play it along your current synths, compare the sounds,

then find out WHICH modules you want to keep.

boh emu and jv have distinct personalities, you may want to keep some sound which is not korgish

Me, I never could play on a SINGLE all-encompassing machine.

Generic workstations tend to have some kind of homogeneous flavor, no matter how rich the flavour is. The hammond, the rhodes and the strings have something in common.

Sometimes (often) you don't want this. you want strings from venus and guitars from mars. from different converters, with different effects, etc.

A song played on one machine "doing it all" sounds always a bit too homogeneous to me.

But nobody can tell you WHICH module is totally "other", "different" from the kronos... until you hear the kronos and play them along.

Even if you need to sell stuff to finance the kronos, a few weeks won't kill you.

this is a field where personal judgment is paramount, so... it's just a suggestion.

Unicorn · Post by **Unicorn** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:15 pm

keywhiz61 wrote:...I could use a Kronos live to replace my entire current set up? I know this is getting a bit ahead of myself and is maybe a better question (at this point) for Oasys owners but....

my current setup is:

Original Motif6
Roland A-37 controller

both of which drive a rack setup of:

Emu Proteus 2000 (with addtional Vintage Pro and Mo Phatt cards)
JV-1080
Emu B3 module with Neo Ventilator leslie sim.

Is the Kronos powerful and versatile enough to be the ONLY sound source I use while also controlling it with the Roland controller?

No way!

Flash & The Pan · Post by **Flash & The Pan** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:06 am

SpIdErWeB wrote:Well, I do think the Kronos does sound "better" than the Motif 6, EMUs or JV... however, if you have some songs with very specific sounds, you might want to replace them to get exact same sounding.

Apparently Digital Sound Factory might consider to release the EMUs sounds for Oasys/Kronos as EXs (if Korg provides tools to build EXs). If not, you might need to use and import the SoundFont version.

Regarding the Motif and JV sounds, there's no library ready to be used, so you might want to try to reproduce the sound as close as possible with internal Kronos sounds (there's almost 12 Gb of sounds), use any free Soundfont from website such sf2midi... or sample your own patch/preset to build use them in the Kronos with the Roland Controller.

In conclusion, I would go for the Kronos...

Hi, Disagree...with "Kronos" sounds better than....Roland, Yanaha, etc..."Kronos" has own caracter on the Sonic Palette but doesn't mean sounds better, Im sorry, but that's not true...Roland sounds good and some presets awesome, Yamaha motif 6 includes some amazing sounds too not includes in "Kronos" and so on...so move on...will see, what is next in sounding capabilities, Lol

my 2 cents,
Phil

synthguy · Post by **synthguy** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:02 am

ozy wrote:boh emu and jv have distinct personalities, you may want to keep some sound which is not korgish

Me, I never could play on a SINGLE all-encompassing machine.

Generic workstations tend to have some kind of homogeneous flavor, no matter how rich the flavour is. The hammond, the rhodes and the strings have something in common.

Sometimes (often) you don't want this. you want strings from venus and guitars from mars. from different converters, with different effects, etc.

I'm with ozy on this too. I'm another one of those "different effects, different engines, different converters" guys. Besides, I like stuff piled high and lots of blinky lights.

As he says, the E-mu and Roland do tend to have a few sounds which might be hard to replicate. Especially the E-mu, with its wild filter types and some unusual waves it has.

However, if you never use anything particularly different in your arsenal of sounds, I'd say the KRONOS will mop the floor with what you have now. Like the Kurzweil PC3, this is one homogeneous sound I really like. And the KRONOS has a ridiculous number of sound engines on board. Not to mention thousands of undoubtedly amazing patches. KORG has the best patch voicing team I've ever heard.

Personally, I'd be tempted to keep the Proteus, JV and A-37. And the Ventilator. But at the very least, the A-37 since you can use it to play additional sounds from the KRONOS.

keywhiz61 · Post by **keywhiz61** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:03 pm

Yes, I'm like you in that I like to have a wide variety of sounds and am always tempted to keep and try and use EVERYTHING. But the rack is starting to get to be too big and cumbersome for live use (I've got a lot of guitar stuff in there too), so the Kronos is going to be part of an attempt to at least start over!

I'm keeping the controller for sure. Just wondering how much stuff to keep in the rack. Yeah, every piece of gear has different timbres and it will certainly be hard to part with the Motif sounds I've come to know so well and love over the years.

But I don't want all my sounds to be homogenous either. I'm hoping that with 9 different synth engines, that won't really be an issue with Kronos?

ozy · Post by **ozy** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:13 pm

keywhiz61 wrote:am always tempted to keep and try and use EVERYTHING. But the rack is starting to get to be too big But I don't want all my sounds to be homogenous either. I'm hoping that with 9 different synth engines, that won't really be an issue with Kronos?

keeping an old module "just in case I need a patch" doesn't make sense. that's just being anal-retentive. Sell it and pay a couple of kronos instalments.

keeping a 1-unit rack module because it's the wavestation or the fs1-r or the matrix1000, and still can't be matched by anything else, and you have 50 of your own patches on it, makes sense.

keywhiz61 wrote:I don't want all my sounds to be homogenous either. I'm hoping that with 9 different synth engines, that won't really be an issue with Kronos?

don't bet the house on it, especially before listening. especially live. and especially with effects being ONE single "engine".

two sounds going through the same effect, then through the same converter, and being output through the same stereo output, mixed through the same mixer channel and EQ...

... will never have the same "space" and phase effects as two different sound sources "meeting" only at the mixer monitor output level.

that's what "homogeneous" means.

The same software questions will have been answered in the same way in all Kronos modules [reverb algorytms will have been standardized, compression algorytms ditto, they will NOT have paid a different programmer for designing envelope A and envelope B, except when modeling analogue envelopes [hopefully],

so the Kronos is ONE machine with ONE personality.

To make a long story short:

If you want a SINGLE keyboard for gigging hassle-free,

the answer is "yes, the kronos plus a second keybed is a complete solution".

If on the other hand the question is: "am I certain that I will never need another synth again, that I will never regret the modules on which I spent years programming MY sound?"

"Will one single keyboard sound like my rack?"

"will a Hd-1 chorused string patch in slot A plus a chorused [different chorus] harmonica patch on slot B, passed through the same effect bus, sound like a Motif harmonica plus a proteus string patch on two different mixer channels, through the two different choruses of the two machines?",

the answer is "no".

How much is that important to you?

You tell me.

Citizen Klaus · Post by **Citizen Klaus** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:55 pm

ozy wrote:don't bet the house on it, especially before listening. especially live. and especially with effects being ONE single "engine".

Kronos has nine proper engines, without having to count the effects processor as one.

SGX-1 (modeled/sampled grand piano)
EP-1 (modeled/sampled electric piano)
CX-3 (modeled tonewheel organ)
HD-1 (S&S)
AL-1 (VA)
PolysixEX (VA)
MS-20EX (VA)
MOD-7 (VA/sample mangling/6-op FM)
STR-1 (physical modeling)

That being said, you make a good point. The Kronos will have a lot of variety for one machine, especially if you're interested in the iconic keyboard instruments (piano, organ, etc.). But it's still a Korg through and through -- it's not trying to be chameleonic like the Solaris.

In particular, that Korg character will come through in the filters. Granted, there's quite a bit of difference between those in the MS-20 and the Polysix, but they're still clearly within the same extended family -- each sounds more like each other than like the filter from a Prophet, say, or a Moog.

Of course, there are tricks one can exploit to make the Korg filters a bit more imitative of those on other instruments -- routing the RADIAS' overdrive to "pre-filter" being one of my favorites, for a hint of that Mini edge. And I'm personally of the opinion that tone debates can get a bit precious...

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