R3: turning ARPEGGIATOR on RETRIGGER tempo

Bujo · Post by **Bujo** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:37 pm

I find this very annoying. I sync my R3 with an external clock (a KP3 in this case but the problem would be the same with another host) and the moment I turn the arpeggiator on, the tempo (and the first beat of the mesure) resets itself. The tempo stays the same but if you don't activate the arp at the very exact moment of the first beat of a mesure, the synth is off beat!!

Anyone have a solution for this or can share my pain?

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:51 pm

Turn retrigger off?

Bujo · Post by **Bujo** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:19 pm

I looked everywhere for that and I couldn't find the option... Am I blind or there is no such option?

Bujo · Post by **Bujo** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:06 pm

To be clear about this, it's NOT a problem about the "key sync" function. I turned this off, naturally. The problem is about the arpeggiator "on/off" switch.

Regards

Re-Member · Post by **Re-Member** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:16 am

Three things that might work:

1. Save the R3 patch with the arp turned on, switch to another patch, then back to the saved patch again.

2. Try having the patch on the R3 loaded up, unplugging the MIDI cable, then plugging it back in again.

3. Load up the R3 patch, adjust the tempo on the KP3 to something else, then switch back to the tempo you want it in again.

Since the KP3 doesn't have a proper sequencer to retrigger it's clock, it's probably sending out MIDI tempo data non stop. MIDI actually doesn't send or receive tempo in measures, just beats.

Bujo · Post by **Bujo** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 3:33 pm

Thanks Re-Member for your help.

Still trying things to work around with this new synth and I realize some facts.

When you change patch, the r3 resets its beat too! So the bpm stays the same but the beat gets offset (well there's probably a chance out of thousands that it will perfectly not) even if its the master or the slave.

Now I realized that the kp3 is a very poor master (as well as slave!!) so I try to slave the R3 on something else. I tried with Ableton Live, works pretty well, the R3 responds instantly...but the same problem happens when I change patch or activate arpeggiator : it resets the beat. So I have to stop and restart Ableton Live to align everything again. I believe this can be a pretty big limitation of the use I can do of it on stage...

And I got this synth especially to have another option than the laptop...

Do you know a lot of hardware synths that behave like this? I use to play soft synths and I never had to deal with that kind of problem...

Re-Member · Post by **Re-Member** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 6:04 pm

but the same problem happens when I change patch or activate arpeggiator : it resets the beat. So I have to stop and restart Ableton Live to align everything again.

This is why you should have the patch you want to use loaded up with the arp turned on before you start the sequencer. Unless you have really good timing, don't switch patches that need to be beat specific on a synthesizer while the sequencer is playing. It can possibly throw the synth out of sync by one beat. Every sequencer/synth set up I've messed with functions this way.

Another thing to check is the MIDI sync settings on the R3. Make sure AUTO is turned off and specifically select USB or MIDI depending on which you're slaving it to.

Bujo · Post by **Bujo** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 6:22 pm

Ok, I understand that now. Thanks for your help!

m4m · Post by **m4m** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 2:26 am

also researching on this as in a live PA setting it's pretty impraticable to have to stop the host to regain sync, i remember the roland ef303 did that on patch changes(going adrift at the same tempo), so does the koass pad 3

main issue i see is the r3 or kp3 do not receive song position pointer

maybe having the arp on in the sequence would help

Bujo · Post by **Bujo** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:14 pm

Now I really think there's a fundamental bug with this arp problem... I figured out (on top of all) that the first time you hit a key (note) after you switch the arpeggiator ON, it resets the beat too!!! EVEN IF THE ARP "KEY SYNC OPTION IS TURNED OFF...!!! So. I'm really discouraged by this, I mean, they really don't want us to switch the arpeggiator on and off during a song?

Thanks for the tip M4M, thats a great idea to switch the arp from the sequencer (Ableton Live in my situation) so that it switch it perfectly in time. But then this new limitation scrap it all.

Re-Member · Post by **Re-Member** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:25 pm

Tried it on another synth of mine (SH-201) and it acts the same way. Seems like it's just a matter of timing or something.

If the patch you're playing is a single timbre, you can create a split patch to work around having to manually turn the arp on mid-song. Copy timbre 1 onto timbre 2, then transpose timbre 1 down three octaves and turn on the arp. When you need to use the arp, just press the octave down button three times to get to those keys.

Bujo · Post by **Bujo** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:13 pm

Yeah, cool re-member, that's a cool solution, I appreciate your help!

Did you read what m4m wrote? He talks about not receiving song position pointer being the problem. In fact, R3 does receive neither send this message. I'm not familiar to that, does it ring a bell for you?

Re-Member · Post by **Re-Member** » Fri Jul 15, 2011 2:06 am

Bujo wrote:Yeah, cool re-member, that's a cool solution, I appreciate your help!

Did you read what m4m wrote? He talks about not receiving song position pointer being the problem. In fact, R3 does receive neither send this message. I'm not familiar to that, does it ring a bell for you?

Song position pointer does sound familiar. I remember coming across the term in my MC-505 manual. I think it relates to machines keeping in the same beat in addition to tempo. Perhaps when you press start on certain sequencers, it sends this message out only once, which might explain why the synth is going off beat but keeping the same tempo when you switch patches and turn on the arp after it's started.

m4m · Post by **m4m** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:33 am

song position pointer sends the position every 1/96th of a beat IIRC to make sure all devices are at the same place