Cannot Record the Editor Controllers

Lou · Post by **Lou** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:04 am

Hi everyone,

I've been working with the editor since day one, and as of right now I still cannot record any control movements made from the editor GUI. What's odd is that after launching the editor it immediately communicates with Kronos and I have complete control of Kronos from the editor and vice versa.

As an example, in Logic I load one midi track and one instrument track with the editor on it.
Record a few bars on the midi track and playback, all is fine. Now if I do another pass to record the controllers, nothing happens. If I try recording just the automation I get the same thing, nothing. Of course I can record the hardware movements or pencil in the automation without any problem but my thought was that the editor would do this also, is this not true? Does anyone have any idea at all as to what might be going on here? I'm on Lion X 7.3, are there any compatibility issues I'm not aware of?
Thanks

danatkorg · Post by **danatkorg** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:48 am

Lou wrote:Hi everyone,

I've been working with the editor since day one, and as of right now I still cannot record any control movements made from the editor GUI. What's odd is that after launching the editor it immediately communicates with Kronos and I have complete control of Kronos from the editor and vice versa.

As an example, in Logic I load one midi track and one instrument track with the editor on it.
Record a few bars on the midi track and playback, all is fine. Now if I do another pass to record the controllers, nothing happens. If I try recording just the automation I get the same thing, nothing. Of course I can record the hardware movements or pencil in the automation without any problem but my thought was that the editor would do this also, is this not true? Does anyone have any idea at all as to what might be going on here? I'm on Lion X 7.3, are there any compatibility issues I'm not aware of?
Thanks

Due to the extremely large number of parameters, which IIRC caused problems with some hosts, automation is not supported via the plug-in. As you note, the KRONOS already supports extensive control from the front-panel knobs, sliders, and buttons.

- Dan

SeedyLee · Post by **SeedyLee** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:20 am

That's unfortunate. I haven't played much with the editor as a VST (used it a bit as a standalone), but one of the main things I wanted to use the VST for was recording of automation.

Other VSTs with large parameters allow customisation of which parameters to expose to the host to avoid this problem. Wonder why this couldn't be done here?

Lou · Post by **Lou** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:56 pm

danatkorg wrote: Due to the extremely large number of parameters, which IIRC caused problems with some hosts, automation is not supported via the plug-in. As you note, the KRONOS already supports extensive control from the front-panel knobs, sliders, and buttons.
- Dan

Thank you for confirming this Dan. Over the past week and a half I have reinstalled the Korg driver the editor and even 1.6. trying to get this to work. I have been reading the editor PDF and somehow I missed this or it hasn't been documented. I guess this explains why a few of us felt that the documentation was on the shallow side, but it's not as there wasn't anything to document regarding this matter.

The stand alone editor is good for programming and saving your edits.
It sure would have been nice if they would've at least allowed basic mixer function (Recording) within the DAW environment and left the heavy editing for the standalone.

At least now I can end my daily quest of getting the editor parameters to dance around in a recording,

thanks again Dan.

Shakil · Post by **Shakil** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:54 pm

SeedyLee wrote:That's unfortunate. I haven't played much with the editor as a VST (used it a bit as a standalone), but one of the main things I wanted to use the VST for was recording of automation.

Other VSTs with large parameters allow customisation of which parameters to expose to the host to avoid this problem. Wonder why this couldn't be done here?

SeedyLee, which other VSTs are you referring to? VST controller for Hardware synth, or just VSTi soft synths?

QuiRobinez · Post by **QuiRobinez** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:22 pm

i missed the automation also, so what i did was creating an external instrument in cubase. I don't know if you can do this in other daw's but in cubase you can create 'vsti like instruments' where the external instrument behaves like a vsti for automation when you create an editor for it.

I've did this for the most used common parameters, so now i have an editor with the correct names like cutoff, resonance, eg intensity, etc for all 16 midi channels of the kronos and i can draw in the automation channels with the correct automation parameter name in cubase.

So maybe that's an idea to do it yourself in your own daw?

mine looks like this:

Lou · Post by **Lou** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:52 pm

So basically, you mapped this to the Kronos itself and not the editor, is this correct? If so, isn't 't the same as using the control surface of the K.
Or are you able to actually write the automation with it? .. which would be very handy..

edit: I see, you are using it for automation, very cool. I don't know if this can be done in Logic or Live, will look into it though. Thanks Qui.

RonF · Post by **RonF** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:42 pm

danatkorg wrote: Due to the extremely large number of parameters, which IIRC caused problems with some hosts, automation is not supported via the plug-in. As you note, the KRONOS already supports extensive control from the front-panel knobs, sliders, and buttons.

- Dan

Wow....truly astonishing! Which makes the purpose of the *plug in*, other than patch recall,....what?

And when Korg says on their Kronos website: "In addition, Kronos smoothly functions as a plug-in with many popular DAWs, providing your studio with native, unprecedented sonic power."....How is this manifested in a plugin which has no audio throughput, and no automation?

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:48 pm

It would be good in that case then if we could have a right click option on individual parameters along the lines of 'activate automation' for that project/instance.

I'm feeling more and more that the editor will be useless to me (haven't needed to use it yet).

The M3 and X50 and even Radias (although not a plugin) editors seemed far superior to this.

Lou · Post by **Lou** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:51 pm

Ron, I was totally flawed by this and spent so much time trying to get it to work not realizing it's short comings..
Unfortunately, I cannot set up an editor as Qui did. Pretty sad you have to set up an editor to emulate the editor?
Yes total recall, but It's much easier and faster to just save your program or combi and load it when you open your DAW, your parameters changes are saved just the same..

RonF · Post by **RonF** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:03 pm

Lou....in Logic you can use the Environment to set up a template such as the one Qui did in Cubase... But its not small task....and you could not be more correct....why on earth would you even need the plugin at all if you were going to use an adaptive controller template? Its counter-intuitive.

As I understand it now, based on Dan's comment, the only 'feature' which the Kronos *plugin* brings to the DAW environment, over the stand alone editor which is of course in its own (albeit limited) way useful for remote editing using the PC, is patch recall....which is of course just as easily achieved by entering the bank and program number in your midi track in your DAW.

For me, I will stick with the standalone Editor.....as the "smoothly functioning" DAW "integration" of the plugin seems almost non-existent. I'm struggling to understand what the plugin "does".

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:18 pm

RonF wrote:
danatkorg wrote: Due to the extremely large number of parameters, which IIRC caused problems with some hosts, automation is not supported via the plug-in. As you note, the KRONOS already supports extensive control from the front-panel knobs, sliders, and buttons.

- Dan
Wow....truly astonishing! Which makes the purpose of the *plug in*, other than patch recall,....what?

And when Korg says on their Kronos website: "In addition, Kronos smoothly functions as a plug-in with many popular DAWs, providing your studio with native, unprecedented sonic power."....How is this manifested in a plugin which has no audio throughput, and no automation?

I completely agree with Ron on this. What's the use of a VSTi that does not do much more than mirror the Kronos on a bigger screen??? What a waste of resources! Tweaking around 50000 parameters remotely (which hardly is of much use), with all the CPU spikes and slowdowns due to a not really working sysex concept, and then without even writing 50 of these parameters to software sequencer automation? Seeing some parent-child relations in the patches and combis is nice, but can hardly be the decisive point, can it?

The longer I try to make some sense of this editor, the less I succeed!
Frankly, this result is extremely poor, and below all promotional hype and raised expectations - and that IMO after taking at least half a year too long to provide it after advertising it!

Lou · Post by **Lou** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:24 pm

RonF wrote:
For me, I will stick with the standalone Editor.....as the "smoothly functioning" DAW "integration" of the plugin seems almost non-existent. I'm struggling to understand what the plugin "does".

The functionality of the standalone is the same. I'm only using one monitor so that surely wouldn't be of any help. I hate to say it but the word glory comes to mind. Sorry, but to me it's not a plug-in other then it's visual appearance and minimal functionality.

Sina172 · Post by **Sina172** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:44 pm

irtehyar · Post by **irtehyar** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:06 pm

This just caused me to completely lose interest in the plugin. Kinda funny, really. But then I do have a sick sense of humor.

Still love my keyboard. But is it integrated? Hells no. My Virus TI is laughing at my Kronos. There will be no K software on my pc (I use the windows default drivers for midi since the K one doesn't work as well). Man, what a wait, too!

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