velocity curve doesn't reach 127

huibn · Post by **huibn** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:12 pm

Am i the only one with this problem?

I have a kronos 73, but i think the velocity curves sucks.. i can't even reach velocity range 127?!?! If i connect my nord stage with a midi cable to my kronos, i can reach the 127, the pianos and rhodes sound totally different.. they come alive when i play them with a different midi controller.. much more expression.. i tried every curve on the kronos... non of the curves can reach the 127 (and still be able to play soft passages)

I also had this problem with my korg m3-73

anyone? after waiting more than 8 months for replacing the bad (double trigger) keybed, this is another huge disappointment..

:'(

.Jens · Post by **.Jens** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:24 pm

It may not solve your problem - so consider it just an additional info:

My 61 key version (I know - completely different keybed) reaches the high range (126 at least, I think also 127), but I have to slam the keys quite hard for the last bit. It's not a problem for me though, as I have a second hammer action keybed connected anyway (especially for the rhodes / pianos).

But you seem not to be the only one - others have also reported on this phenomenon after the keybed replacement: http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... p?p=475428 (third post from the bottom).

danmusician · Post by **danmusician** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:44 pm

huibn wrote:Am i the only one with this problem?

I have a kronos 73, but i think the velocity curves sucks.. i can't even reach velocity range 127?!?! If i connect my kawai k1 (1989) with a midi cable to my kronos, i can reach the 127, the pianos and rhodes sound totally different.. they come alive when i play them with a different midi controller.. much more expression.. i tried every curve on the kronos... non of the curves can reach the 127 (and still be able to play soft passages)

I also had this problem with my korg m3-73

anyone? after waiting more than 8 months for replacing the bad (double trigger) keybed, this is another huge disappointment.. i am considering to sell it (with more than 1000 euro loss)

:'(

I owned an M3-73, and that was one of my major complaints about it.

I haven't noticed this on my Kronos 73. I haven't actually checked to see if it reaches 127, but it does respond when I dig into the keys. I'll be recording this afternoon, I'll check it out.

I've also had my keybed repaired, by the way.

danmusician · Post by **danmusician** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:49 pm

I just ran a velocity test on my Kronos 73. I recorded MIDI data into my DAW. (Digital Performer on my Mac.)

Velocity Curve 9 - which is recommended for the RH3 keybed:
In normal playing, the highest I got was in the low 120's. I tend to play pretty heavy handed. I then just played one key as hard as I could, and it did get 127. Honestly not sure there's a musical difference between 123 and 127. In any event, I never feel like I've hit a ceiling on the Kronos. I used to feel that way on the M3 all the time.

I briefly tried the other curves. The lower ones - 1 through 3, didn't get much above 100. That's to be expected, I think, based on the curve. On 6 and 7, I was able to get to 126.

In short, I don't think this is the same issue that was present in the M3-73.

Also, keep in mind that the given the age of the Kawai, the keys may not offer the same resistance they did when they were new. It may be easier to reach 127 on the older keys.

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:05 pm

I noticed this, then I realised that in Global mode you can 'calibrate' the range of the aftertouch

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:34 pm

Aftertouch has nothing to do with velocity response.

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:23 pm

SanderXpander wrote:Aftertouch has nothing to do with velocity response.

Sorry, I was pretty sure that there was an Velocity Calibration option. And that is what I meant to say. But looks like I'm wrong anyway..

1jordyzzz · Post by **1jordyzzz** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:43 am

i think korg should make a graph to customize or own velocity curve.. the curve 3 - 1 is too hard (never hit high sample on sgx).. velocity 9, i can't get it to reach its highest sample (8'th sample ?), then on 4, i can get it, but its not dynamic at all...
right now i'm using velocity 9, but the velocity bias is increased to 50... that way i can play more dynamically (especially classical music... dynamic is No.1)...

keekma · Post by **keekma** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:59 am

1jordyzzz wrote:i think korg should make a graph to customize or own velocity curve.. the curve 3 - 1 is too hard (never hit high sample on sgx).. velocity 9, i can't get it to reach its highest sample (8'th sample ?), then on 4, i can get it, but its not dynamic at all...
right now i'm using velocity 9, but the velocity bias is increased to 50... that way i can play more dynamically (especially classical music... dynamic is No.1)...

I noticed that on 4 and 9 I only can reach 127 when I slam on keys. Not by playing normal. I have a new keybed. I now use 5. But you can't play as soft on that one, so I changed the velocity settings of the piano in the SGX settings. Now I like the dynamics. I can play the soft samples on the piano and reach the highest more easely.

1jordyzzz · Post by **1jordyzzz** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:23 am

keekma wrote: I noticed that on 4 and 9 I only can reach 127 when I slam on keys. Not by playing normal. I have a new keybed. I now use 5. But you can't play as soft on that one, so I changed the velocity settings of the piano in the SGX settings. Now I like the dynamics. I can play the soft samples on the piano and reach the highest more easely.

your statement in bold text is confirmed by me... for orchestra with timpani combi, i have to slam the key to get the timpani out..
with velocity curve 3,2,1, you will never hear your timpani sounds...

yes, the workaround for this problem (for SGX 1 engine only) is to modify the velocity parameter (velocity intensity and velocity bias).. not sure for another engine i think...

Melodialworks Music · Post by **Melodialworks Music** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:18 pm

keekma wrote:
I noticed that on 4 and 9 I only can reach 127 when I slam on keys. Not by playing normal. I have a new keybed. I now use 5. But you can't play as soft on that one, so I changed the velocity settings of the piano in the SGX settings. Now I like the dynamics. I can play the soft samples on the piano and reach the highest more easely.

What SGX settings do you use? Thanks!

1jordyzzz · Post by **1jordyzzz** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:16 pm

ok this is sorta my custom piano

i use velocity curve 9
first you select dark patches (german dark 2 or japanese dark 2... number 1 is too dark, and 3 is too bright... but it's personal preference..)
at the sgx page, set velocity bias in the range of 50-80 (personal preference.. i use 55 at german and 65 on japan).. close the lid a little bit (80).. and increase the damper resonance to +3

# for japanese, i increase the treble section on the 3 band EQ (just a little bit!), then i add (if i remember exactly) piano body (effect with the word piano, i'm not on the kronos now) IFX to japanese pianos, with wet:dry = 30:70

# for german, i decrease both treble and mid section on the 3 band EQ (very little), i add the same effect as above (piano body effect) with wet:dry = 60:40 (to add lush effect), and also a reverb hall (beware too much reverbration, because a reverb effect has been used on the MFX by default). Don't forget to chain those effect together..

**for both pianos, number 1 IFX has been assigned to a 4 band EQ... keep it, then chain it with the piano effect and the reverb.

i suspect that the piano body effect (don't now the real name of the effect) is to emulate the resonance of the piano body... there are several parameters on the effect that i have customized, but i forget which one.. it's used on the 3 way stereo piano patch, and i guess it's one of the thing that makes the sound "big". and if you increase the damper resonance volume, you will get a stronger effect like you were playing a real piano (YES IT IS!!

)

again, it's a personal preference...
well, let me know what you think!

EDIT = i have never tampered the velocity intensity parameter, but i will give it a try later

keekma · Post by **keekma** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:22 pm

Melodialworks Music wrote:
keekma wrote:
I noticed that on 4 and 9 I only can reach 127 when I slam on keys. Not by playing normal. I have a new keybed. I now use 5. But you can't play as soft on that one, so I changed the velocity settings of the piano in the SGX settings. Now I like the dynamics. I can play the soft samples on the piano and reach the highest more easely.
What SGX settings do you use? Thanks!

I use Velocity Bias -025,
And Velocity Intensity +10,
to compensate for the velocity curve 5 compared to 4/9

huibn · Post by **huibn** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:56 pm

isnt it ridiculous that you cannot reach the loudest samples whitout slamming on your keyboard?? bias velocity etc only works in program mode, but i you use it in sequence mode and you need to play rhodes patches, or control external romplers and want to reach 127, i am screwed..

on the rhodes patches there is also a sample on the hogest velocity.. it cannot be reached like when i play it with a different midicontroller.. wayyy more dynamics and expression when i play it with a different midicontroller..

i am flabbergasted.. payed 3400 euro for a broken keybed, had to wait for more than 8 months before icould use it, and now i cant even reach 120-127

WHAT KIND OF 3400 EURO KEYBOARD IS THIS?!?!?!

am i the only one who thinks this is completely ridiculous?!

i pay that much for only the sound engine, but still need to buy a different midi controller because the velocity curves are too limited?!?! WFT?

do not want to be rude or anything excuse me for capital letters, but i am so extremely disappointed, all my money savings in my kronos rompler,,,...

Ten2One · Post by **Ten2One** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:49 pm

I also have been experiencing velocities around 85-112 using velocity curve setting 4. I switched to 9 and it went from 93-115. I called product support and reported the problem and they are supposed to get back to me tomorrow. This is not acceptable. The Kronos doesn't respond as well as a cheap 200-300 dollar controller.

I had the new contacts put on and was so happy to not have the double strike problems I didn't even notice the velocity problem. I noticed the key travel was more shallow and I couldn't seem to get that extra sound when I needed it. It really showed up when I was programming some drum patterns with the Kronos. About 115 was the best I could get and I was really hitting the keys pretty hard.

This is my fourth Kronos 88 and this is really getting old! This kind of money should provide a great action as well as accurate and full featured recording. I shouldn't have to buy a controller after having spent this kind of money.

Product support said I was the first one to report this kind of problem. If we don't tell them they won't fix it!

Korg did work with me to get rid of the double strike problem but now I hope they will get on this problem. The Kronos sounds to good to be shackled by poor dynamics.

Ten2One

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