Sample libraries sugestions and copyrights

[Rskeys]

Hello everyone.

With the coming of 2.0 i'm, like most of you, thinking on
how to make this board even better.
My sampling wishlist is as follows:

----»Brass Librarie
----»Electric Guitar
----»Omnisphere (probably my favourite vst)

I already own Omnisphere, i would apreciate your sugestions on brass and electric Guitars.

Also would like to know if i'm breaking copyright by posting my sample libraries for other korg users to download (they may originate from vst's that i onw).

Regards,

Ricardo

[Sharp]

----»Brass Librarie

Have you actually loaded EXs 3 in full on your KRONOS ?
There's tons of additional Brass sounds your missing out on if you haven't.

----»Omnisphere (probably my favourite vst)

I don't own this, but it's something I will buy in the future myself. The demo's sound awesome. When I do get it though, I plan on loading many of the sounds into the KRONOS and streaming them there.

Also would like to know if i'm breaking copyright by posting my sample libraries for other korg users to download (they may originate from vst's that i onw).

It depends on many factors.
If you use the sound engine of the VSTi to create your own sound, then it's your sound to do with as you like.

If you try lift a factory sound from a commercial library, and share that, well.... you could get in trouble.

If it's a free VSTi, none of the above matter.

And to totally confuse matters, there is no law that defines the rules on sampling a sound, as it's not a performance. This topic has been discussed over and over many times all over the internet. People have yet to agree on this in anyway.

Regards
Sharp.

[QuiRobinez]

I already own Omnisphere, i would apreciate your sugestions on brass and electric Guitars.

Also would like to know if i'm breaking copyright by posting my sample libraries for other korg users to download (they may originate from vst's that i onw).

if you create sample libraries from omnisphere that includes any of the samples of omnisphere then you are breaking copyright.

this is from their site:
Am I allowed to distribute samples of my own original patches made with my Spectrasonics Instruments?
Your own original patches created in Spectrasonics Virtual Instruments are based on our copyrighted material, so the answer would be NO in those cases. In the case of original user patches created SOLELY with the digital oscillators in the synthesizer section of Omnisphere (i.e using NO SAMPLES), this is permissible

To me this makes perfect sense, i also believe that using samples from other synths like Omnisphere is making a copy of somebody else his work. So i would never do that.

When you create patches using the VA synth engine of Omnisphere (thus NOT the sample oscs) then off course you can use those for your library, because that way you are designing the sounds.

Consider this: when for instance i would sample the presets of my Motif XS and distribute them for the Kronos, would that be allowed?

In my opinion this isn't allowed because you copied somebody else his work. But when i create original sounds with the OSCs then it's allowed.

For OS 2.0 i have planned to create some samplebased soundsets from the Virus TI, Roland JP8000 and Jupiter 8. What i'm going to do is sample some of my own sounds and use those sounds as the starting base of something complely new where i use the sampled character of the original synth and add the Kronos flavour on top of that.

Keep in mind, sampling is one of the most easiest thing to do for creating soundsets and sure you can do it for your own purpose. But it gets interesting if you see sampled sounds as a new source for you sounds and create new sounds with those sampled sources.

[Sharp]

if you create sample libraries from omnisphere that includes any of the samples of omnisphere then you are breaking copyright.

this is from their site:
Am I allowed to distribute samples of my own original patches made with my Spectrasonics Instruments?
Your own original patches created in Spectrasonics Virtual Instruments are based on our copyrighted material, so the answer would be NO in those cases. In the case of original user patches created SOLELY with the digital oscillators in the synthesizer section of Omnisphere (i.e using NO SAMPLES), this is permissible

They can say what they like on this matter, but the fact is that they would not stand a chance in hell of upholding that in any court of law.

All the samples driving Omnisphere only exist because they sampled them from other people's software synths, romplers and synths.

If they say it's against copyright law to create your own unique patches in Omnisphere and sample them, then they have already broken the law themselves.

See for yourself the software and hardware that they sampled at the bottom of this page.
http://www.spectrasonics.net/products/o ... ources.php

They cannot prevent anyone from creating and sampling their own unique patches when Omnisphere was created using the exact same process.

Regards
Sharp.

[BasariStudios]

James is right, THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL that there is a clean Sound in the
world that hasn't broken any law going by what Spectrasonic say...its too much.

[Phabius]

I was reading an old Keyboard magazine with the subject "20 Sounds That Must Die", with Jack Hotop saying that the "Pole" sample from the M1 once ended up in the ROM of a synth from another company. I guess they wouldn't dare doing that with "Lore" though...

[QuiRobinez]

If they say it's against copyright law to create your own unique patches in Omnisphere and sample them, then they have already broken the law themselves.

well, it's true, for instance the omnisphere Nature Boy preset is almost an exact copy from one of the first Kawai K5000S presets.

but still, i did respect their own policy when i bought the Omnisphere synth. I still think it's a lot of work to create those 40+ gigabyte of sample library so copying that for my own soundsets seems to be unfair to me.

Think like this, basaristudio is going to release a guitar soundset in the future. Say i bought that one and i spent half an hour copying those samples and create a Motif XS soundset and sell that on the motifmart. That doesn't sound fair does it?

What's the difference when copying samples from the guitar samples from basari and sell those for a different synth compared to a synth you bought where you agreed with the copyright terms when you bought it?

I agree that it's a very complex subject, that's why i use a more morale point of view on it.

[JuneauUnderground]

All the samples driving Omnisphere only exist because they sampled them from other people's software synths, romplers and synths.

Sharp, what about the unique patches, like the burning piano, exploding light bulb, etc. These are certainly Spectrasonics protected property as they created them from scratch with their propeller heads, and didn't resample already existing material, no?

[Chrutil]

I agree that it's a very complex subject, that's why i use a more morale point of view on it.

That's how I approach it too. I rarely, if ever, read Eula's for anything (and even if I did, i'm not fluent in legalese - even high paid lawyers get the actual law wrong occasionally) so the best way to look at it for me is to use my moral compass.

C

[Sharp]

What's the difference when copying samples from the guitar samples from basari and sell those for a different synth compared to a synth you bought where you agreed with the copyright terms when you bought it?

Copying, as in cloning the original sound as it stands is a very different story to creating something new and unique from that material.

Anyone copying / cloning a sound as it stands is simply just asking for trouble. Unless it's for personal use in which case there is nothing they can do about it.

Regards
Sharp.

[QuiRobinez]

What's the difference when copying samples from the guitar samples from basari and sell those for a different synth compared to a synth you bought where you agreed with the copyright terms when you bought it?

Copying, as in cloning the original sound as it stands is a very different story to creating something new and unique from that material.

Anyone copying / cloning a sound as it stands is simply just asking for trouble. Unless it's for personal use in which case there is nothing they can do about it.

Regards
Sharp.

Yes i agree with you, however in the case of omnisphere a lot of the sounds are the complete samples of that sound, so that's why i said that using those samples is a type of cloning.

However, when i create sounds on the motif xs, like a competely new guitar based on the samples in the motif i consider this as fresh new unique material. So i think we share the same view on this matter.

But because i find this this an interesting discussion let make it a little bit more difficult, say that i bought the guitar soundset from basaristudio and use 20 seconds of samples from that soundset to create my own presets that sounds nothing like the guitars from the basaristudio soundset, that would be allowed according to our definition above

[Sharp]

Sharp, what about the unique patches, like the burning piano, exploding light bulb, etc. These are certainly Spectrasonics protected property as they created them from scratch with their propeller heads, and didn't resample already existing material, no?

The same logic will apply.

If you are cloning the sound, as in lifting it as is, then sure, that's just asking for trouble.

If you create something totally unique from that sample by using the sound engine to warp it into something entirely new, then what you create is it's YOUR property.

If this were not true, then Spectrasonics could have never created Omnisphere in the first place because they sampled countless VSTi's, Romplers and Synths.

Regards
Sharp.

[BasariStudios]

I agree with James and Qui but deppends how you look at it, from a Moral
point of view or just simply Law...its a messed up topic. I look at it as,
if i create something that is not recognizable then its ok, if Qui resamples
my Guitar and when i hear it i dont even know its that...then, there is nothing
i can do about it legally...i dont even think there is something morally wrong,
if Qui took my Guitar and made something completely different then mine
then even morally is ok. I did copy someones work too, i copied the original
Guitar which someone else made or invented.

[Sharp]

Yes i agree with you, however in the case of omnisphere a lot of the sounds are the complete samples of that sound, so that's why i said that using those samples is a type of cloning.

I'm afraid that's something I don't know the answer to, but I would love it if someone could explain how this is allowed from a legal standpoint.

For example, why is it ok for people to sample the Melotron tapes and release them as their own product. Yet, not ok to sample a KRONOS and release that as their own product. I simply don't know the answer to why one is acceptable and the other is not.

I am just busting to sample a Roland D-50 and release that as a KRONOS EXs. But nobody can tell me if this is legal or not. I've even spent money on getting an answer to this and still nobody can tell me if it's allowed or not.

But because i find this this an interesting discussion let make it a little bit more difficult, say that i bought the guitar soundset from basaristudio and use 20 seconds of samples from that soundset to create my own presets that sounds nothing like the guitars from the basaristudio soundset, that would be allowed according to our definition above

My moral compass says, if you created new sounds that were original, as in didn't sound like a guitar at all then your fine. If they were just obvious variations on the original, then I would see that as a major no no.

Resampling a sample library is far more tricky too legally than the example an actual instrument like the Melotron example above / D-50 example above.

Regards
Sharp.

[QuiRobinez]

I am just busting to sample a Roland D-50 and release that as a KRONOS EXs. But nobody can tell me if this is legal or not. I've even spent money on getting an answer to this and still nobody can tell me if it's allowed or not.

yes, it's difficult.

The way i see it, when you use the samples that are one on one can be compared with the original synth then probably someone could say that it's illegal.

Like for instance, sampling the raw sample set of the yamaha xs is probably not allowed. But when you sample a sound you created with those raw samples then probably nobody would care and you can use them i think.

Another example, when you buy an Akai sample cd with raw samples of a synth then you could use those to create new sounds. That's fine. However, if you are going to redistribute those raw samples then you are creating a 'sub' copy of that akai disk for your own soundset which supply.
That is probably not allowed.

But if you used that akai sample disk and create all kind of new interesting patches and sample those and create a soundset from those kind of samples (your work) then i don't see how anyone could be against it.