Hello, Basically I've been in love with the SH-101's great sound since a while now, and since I can't afford one or handling and taking care of an analogue synthesizer, I bought an R3 some months ago (but not mainly because I want the SH's sound, but because I love it). And i've been thinking, Could I get that great, aggressive SH-101 sound out of it? My goal is to get something like in these videos:
I've also noticed that R3's arp is very similar and could work very well to do it exactly like the SH-101, but I just can't get that sound.. that special sound of the SH-101, any help would be appreciated because I'm willing to learn more on sound design and synthesis
I would suggest to research youtube videos and demo tracks to check the sound spectrum capabilities of R3. My own judgment is that R3 is maybe limited on analog sounds recreation, most of the patches sounds very thin without a "fat vintage sound" signature.
I have followed some changes inside Korg R3 DAC output board to reach a better and full sound, but of course don´t sound in the same way as old legacy analog synths. http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... hp?t=76531
Another suggestion is to connect via MIDI another sound module or VST soft synth to reinforce the sound capabilities of R3. I mixed before circuit bend an Alesis NanoBass module to reinforce R3 factory sounds and the difference is huge. The demo above is a showcase of R3 sound quality after circuit bend without MIDI modules or post editing effects (flat 48khz16 bit recording), Regards.
Part of what makes the SH-101 sound aggressive is that even though it operates on one oscillator, you can have three waveforms stacked on each other.
As a good starting point on the R3, initialize a patch from scratch, then set OSC 1 to Pulse, OSC 2 to Saw, then raise both their volumes up in the Mixer section. After that, go to the Drive/WS page and select SbOSCSqu, then turn the depth all the way up.
It should sound pretty thick from there. Also, experiment with the EQ section. You can roll off some of the high end and pump up the lows. The EQ section is very crucial to this synth because yes, by default, the bass frequencies can sound a little thin. Even if you're not too great at programming patches, just pick a preset that sounds like a bass, then apply the changes mentioned above.
If we compare legacy analog synths R3 sounds very weak. On last R3 circuit changes I decided to eliminate the factory LPF (low pass filter) on DA converter outputs because this circuitry design affected the high frequencies and harmonics contents of the sound. Basically R3 weak sound is not a matter of patches, programming or specific parameters, is more related to the DA converter circuitry design.
If you compare analog to digital, then yes, there's always going to be a difference. All digital synthesizers are prone to aliasing and everything you've described here is the anti-aliasing filter designed within to avoid most of that noise. While it's great that you can circuit bend the R3 to remove that filter, removing the filter is opening the door for aliasing to occur. I have the JP-8000 and while it delivers a much thicker tone, the aliasing noise pops up a lot.
The R3 has a narrower sweet spot, but it's workable. As I said, there's an EQ section to help balance out the sound better. Also in the effects section, there's an additional 2-band EQ which actually pumps out more low end than the main EQ. The Korg patches are really not a good example to compare to real analog because most of them are layered with reverb or delay effects and have shoddy EQ settings.
But honestly, a synth really doesn't need a bunch of low-end unless you are playing in a live situation through an amplifier. The thicker the sound, the more difficult it is to mix in a recording. If I were to take that sample you posted to be mixed with other instruments and then professionally mastered to disc, half of that low-end would end up being rolled off. It's nice to have, yes, but in a mix there is such a thing as having too much.
Re-Member wrote:If you compare analog to digital, then yes, there's always going to be a difference. All digital synthesizers are prone to aliasing and everything you've described here is the anti-aliasing filter designed within to avoid most of that noise. While it's great that you can circuit bend the R3 to remove that filter, removing the filter is opening the door for aliasing to occur. I have the JP-8000 and while it delivers a much thicker tone, the aliasing noise pops up a lot.
The R3 has a narrower sweet spot, but it's workable. As I said, there's an EQ section to help balance out the sound better. Also in the effects section, there's an additional 2-band EQ which actually pumps out more low end than the main EQ. The Korg patches are really not a good example to compare to real analog because most of them are layered with reverb or delay effects and have shoddy EQ settings.
But honestly, a synth really doesn't need a bunch of low-end unless you are playing in a live situation through an amplifier. The thicker the sound, the more difficult it is to mix in a recording. If I were to take that sample you posted to be mixed with other instruments and then professionally mastered to disc, half of that low-end would end up being rolled off. It's nice to have, yes, but in a mix there is such a thing as having too much.
I removed on factory R3 design the passive DA low pass filter, why? Because it use a 18 nf capacitor with a series resistance of 680 ohms and such values overloads the analog DAC output signal swing, so I use instead an active LPF solution. Basically on any DA converter the output impedance is a bit high (or weak in output current) to drive a passive LPF without lost or attenuation of audible audio signal (due the high capacitive load), also the series 680 ohms resistor and 18 nf capacitor attenuates partially the audible spectrum on high frequencies (aprox 7,5khz and above). The only advantage of a passive LPF is the reduction of production costs due the reduction of electronics components. Researching datasheets for high quality designs DAC manufacturers recommends the inclusion of an active LPF, the small brown PCB board that I added on the circuitry changes. The board performs not only the DA aliases filtering process, also it acts as an audio driver that adapts impedances between stages. At the same time I added an active EQ network on final lineout stage to increase the lows and highs frequencies, following approximately Fletcher-Munson human ear contour theory (is not an exact match of course) and to compensate the LPF roll off attenuation.
Another advantage of an active LPF is the improved aliasing attenuation factor due the multiple poles in use (4 filtering poles on my design) setting the active LPF -3db cut off frequency at 12,5Khz (roll off compensated with active EQ) reaching more as -36db of attenuation at 48khz (versus -12db 1 pole on factory design). The presence of aliases signals affects the SNR (signal to noise ratio) on final mix/recording despite that those signals are inaudible.
To summarize the audio quality difference after circuit improvements speaks from themselves.
alfredokiwi wrote:To summarize the audio quality difference after circuit improvements speaks from themselves.
Yes, they sound great, but the point here is that the R3 is already capable of sounding great without needing to modify it. This thread was about someone asking for programming tips, but basically you're just telling everyone that unless they go out perform the exact circuit bend you did, the R3 isn't capable of sounding analog. Personally, I don't think it's a good idea to suggest such a thing since it puts people at risk of opening up their synths, damaging something and voiding their warranty.
I'm pretty certain that the DAC design is the same as the Radias, so if you still want to say the synth sounds weak, that's fine, but there's plenty of R3/Radias owners here who will say otherwise and can actually provide programming help for people who ask.