New EXB-Radias V2.00 / V2.10 bug discovered

ffx · Post by **ffx** » Sat Mar 16, 2013 9:36 pm

Hi,

while converting some nice microKorg XL's patches to M3 EXB-radias manually using the eidtor softwares for both devices, I found a new really annoying bug, that actually prevents using any VPM-oscillator in songs or combinations.

Here is my bug description. I already sent it to Korg's Germany support.

Bugreport Korg M3 V2.04 / EXB-Radias Firmware V2.10/V2.00:

Short desc:

EXB-Radias Programs using the oscillator mode "Sine/VPM" are
not replayed properly, if the program is used within a combination.

Long desc:

The VPM Depth is 33, the VPM harmonics is 9. Now, if this program
is played within a combination, the program always sounds as
VPM depth and VPM harmonics have different parameters. So
all sounds using VPM will sound wrong within in combination.

Please let me now if any of you can discover a more detailed bug behaviour.

A test patch for Korg M3 editor can be downloaded here: http://tstlab.virtualcreations.de/radia ... 31prog.zip

Korg M3 is still my favorite!

Regards

Bald Eagle · Post by **Bald Eagle** » Sat Mar 16, 2013 10:40 pm

I tried to reproduce this problem without even looking at your sample patch and here is what happened for me ...

I setup an EXB-Radias program as you described and played it. It sounded as you would expect. Then I went to a combi and setup timbre 1 to play that program. It sounded exactly the same.

But ... I went back to program mode and played just to compare and be sure. Program mode still sounds the same. Now I switch back to combi mode again and it sounds totally different and there is nothing I can do to get that combi to sound correctly again.

So I go to another initialized combi and set it up as before and it sounds perfect. But another change to program mode and back to combi and sure enough its bad again.

Now I try something a little different. I setup another initialized combi as before and play it. It sounds perfect. I don't switch to program mode this time, I write the combi with the WRITE menu command (didn't save them before). After the save it is corrupt again.

I don't know if any of this helps but at least you know it's not just you.

ffx · Post by **ffx** » Sat Mar 16, 2013 10:56 pm

Cool, please post more experiences. I sent your comment also to Korg support.

I also tried it in a song: Same bug!

So all VPM-programs are not usable at all in a song arrangement!

Bald Eagle · Post by **Bald Eagle** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:19 am

Well, I've played around a lot more with all of this and can't find any pattern other than what you originally reported. Once the combi gets corrupted there doesn't seem to be anything I can find to make it match the program other than reinitialize it. I guess it's in Korg's hands now. Please post anything that you hear back from them.

HardSync · Post by **HardSync** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:45 pm

Bug confirmed here, too. The only way to temporarily repair the Combi so that it sounds correct again is by going into Tone Adjust mode and resetting the OSC1 CTRL2 value. But as soon as you save the combi or switch to Program mode, the bug returns.

To be honest, I've had quite a few weird glitches with the EXB-Radias (both V2.0 and V2.10) when using Radias programs in Combis, particularly with KARMA. Such as (I won't go into a lot of detail here):

"Crosstalk" between Master Layer Sliders. For instance, moving Master Layer slider 2 to alter the rhythm pattern for all modules will cause the Master Layer slider 4's velocity accent's setting to take effect for the GE that is controlling a Radias program. The other modules remain unaffected.

Scene Change Quantize stops working properly, i.e. a 4-bar scene change setting will occur in 1 bar, or a 1-bar scene change will happen immediately, regardless when the scene change is made.

Dynamic Midi Settings in KARMA stop working on Radias programs, too ... say using the JS to toggle between two different pan pattern settings...

Anyway, no matter what I tried, these KARMA combis were broken / corrupted until I swapped out the Radias programs for EDS programs. Then, and only then, did they work properly. So I don't use KARMA to control Radias programs in combis any longer.

ffx · Post by **ffx** » Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:36 pm

Sadly no response from Korg Japan!

Very sad that they do not see the need to fix this essential bug! This bug completely makes one synthesis type of the EXB-Radias unusable!

I also guess that Korg does not want to touch the M3's firmware anymore, a lot easier is to fix the EXB-Radias firmware (which also does exist in recent Korg synths).

That's not cool, Korg!

Bald Eagle · Post by **Bald Eagle** » Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:56 pm

Well, being that the M3 and RADIAS are discontinued products I don't expect that there will be any fix to correct this. We can only play and live with it from now on going forward.

orpheus2006 · Post by **orpheus2006** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:15 pm

Let's wait and see. I'd expect Korg to fix these bugs.

chensa · Post by **chensa** » Sun Oct 20, 2013 9:58 pm

I'll be watching this post for updates too

ffx · Post by **ffx** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 3:24 am

I asked Korg Germany about the process regarding the bug: Korg Japan could not reproduce it and also could not load my examples!

So I built an PCG and wrote a more detailed step-by-step bug description. Korg Germany forwarded the message to Korg Japan.

Hopefully they will fix this now.

BTW. by changing the program in the combination and back to the "buggy" program, it will at least fix some parameters. Also if I save the desired sound in the I-F bank and no U-XX bank, it seems that the sound is reconstructed better on program change - still not as it should.

orpheus2006 · Post by **orpheus2006** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:37 pm

ffx, thanks for the info and your efforts!

ryokorgjapan · Post by **ryokorgjapan** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:09 pm

Hello,

My Japanese friend told me that KORG Japan has confirmed this issue.
They "might" consider the future OS update for this, but I think there is a little chance..because those are discontinued synths.

My friend also said..to avoid this,
Off the check box "Auto Load" in "Combi mode - Tone Adjust tab".
Then you can play Radias Program as Combi Timbre.
I didn't confirm this tho..Please try..

Thank you.

Alê Sasa · Post by **Alê Sasa** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:03 pm

ryokorgjapan wrote:Hello,

My Japanese friend told me that KORG Japan has confirmed this issue.
They "might" consider the future OS update for this, but I think there is a little chance..because those are discontinued synths.

My friend also said..to avoid this,
Off the check box "Auto Load" in "Combi mode - Tone Adjust tab".
Then you can play Radias Program as Combi Timbre.
I didn't confirm this tho..Please try..

Thank you.

Hello, i tried this procedure and it works. But only checking "auto load" on (tone adjust tab). You can copy the effects Prog to combi and save it. All the Prog parameters will not Change. Comparing the original Radias Vpm program x combi mode the sound will be the same.Thank You so much and best regards.

ffx · Post by **ffx** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:12 pm

ryokorgjapan wrote:Hello,

My Japanese friend told me that KORG Japan has confirmed this issue.
They "might" consider the future OS update for this, but I think there is a little chance..because those are discontinued synths.

My friend also said..to avoid this,
Off the check box "Auto Load" in "Combi mode - Tone Adjust tab".
Then you can play Radias Program as Combi Timbre.
I didn't confirm this tho..Please try..

Thank you.

Thanks for the info. BTW. you can see the current value of "OSC Ctrl 2" using the "tone adjust/control surface" tab in performance mode. There you can see what random value OSX ctrl 2 will get. Maybe automating OSC ctrl 2 always in a song would fix this, too.