Best grooveboxes for live and studio hip hop and dance

ZachThaRippa · Post by **ZachThaRippa** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:40 pm

Hey guys, I've been producing hip-hop/rap beats and various genres of EDM for about 7 years using FL studio. I've decided it would be a wise choice to add some hardware the mix for improved sound and for ability for live performance. After some research I've concluded a combination of 2 grooveboxes would be a good place to start. I've narrowed down my choices between the following four units: Roland MC-909, E-MU XL7 or MP7 (would upgrade to both with rom), Korg Electribe EMX1 or Akai MPC 500 (possibly 1000, depending on the other hardware). My budget is just under $1000 (including cables and a small mixer) and can do pretty much any combination of the 4 within my budget. My question is which combination is going to work best for synth oriented hip hop and dance music in both live and studio settings. I've read you can edit patterns during playback on the Command Station so I'm kind of leaning towards that with an MPC (due to the command station's lack of sampling). However I'm not ruling out either of the other two. Oh and just to clarify I do not want to perform with a DAW for right now, as I feel using hardware give a little more show than clicking a mouse (and I can't afford a laptop which is up to DAW spec in addition to one of the specified pieces of equipment).

So tell me Roland MC-909/ E-MU Command Station/ Korg Electribe/ Akai MPC 500/1000 users...whats my best bet going to be?

Thanks for the help!

sohatyi · Post by **sohatyi** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:27 pm

Mpc1000 over 500, seriously. Worlds apart if you use jjos.

Mpc1000 + emx would be a good combo. The MP7 is excellent but they're old and I don't care for the menu diving on a small screen. An MC505 with an mpc1000 would also be a good choice.

PS: yes you can edit on the fly with the command stations. It is indeed very flexible in that way.

ZachThaRippa · Post by **ZachThaRippa** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:52 pm

sohatyi wrote:Mpc1000 + emx would be a good combo. The MP7 is excellent but they're old and I don't care for the menu diving on a small screen. An MC505 with an mpc1000 would also be a good choice.

So def an MPC? How do you think the 505 compares to the EMX? to the 909? Thanks for the help!

sohatyi · Post by **sohatyi** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:34 pm

ZachThaRippa wrote:
sohatyi wrote:Mpc1000 + emx would be a good combo. The MP7 is excellent but they're old and I don't care for the menu diving on a small screen. An MC505 with an mpc1000 would also be a good choice.
So def an MPC? How do you think the 505 compares to the EMX? to the 909? Thanks for the help!

The 505 has 8 part faders, 64 notes of polyphony and a more accurate sequencer. However as the waves are samples, there are limits, the emx's synth can get mental if you tweak it. The sequencer on the 505 is powerful but the workflow is a ballache compared to the emx, it is like night and day. However, once you've mastered the 505, it has a lot of charm (not that I have, just heard some experts at work). If you get some bargains, an emx, mpc and mc505 would be a nice setup (although a kp3 late in the chain guarantees some fun!).

Hugo · Post by **Hugo** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:36 pm

If I was to pick two of those units, I woul go with the EMX and the MC-909. The latter offers sampling, all sorts of sounds, programmable arp, huge screen, etc

neotechtonics · Post by **neotechtonics** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:01 pm

my personal opinion from someone who owns a ass load of gear... for hiphop primarily but also useful for most other EDM genres:

MPC1000 and a good multi-voice polyphonic synth.

I'm slowly working towards changing my setup to a MPC2500SE and Access Virus B

I wouldn't go for the MC505 or MC909 as they are essentially romplers and I prefer hard and fast synthesis but thats just my personal preference. But in their favor they are polyphonic, have better sequencer resolution and the compressor on the MC909 is pretty sweet to get some decent thump from your drums. If you're used to loading up presets then tweaking them to your needs then romplers aren't so bad.

The limitations of the EMX are firstly; no polyphonic synths for chords and also the always quantized sequencer (so it'd be better to use the MPC for sequencing.. finer resolution) Seeing as you've had 7 years of working within FLstudio you might want a synth with a bit more power than the EMX (as much as it pains me to say such a horrible thing cos I love mine so much)

for live use and workflow the EMX is unparalleled imo... but it only really shines if you're running its onboard sequencer for part muting and motion sequencing (recorded fx/synth/filter tweaks) but you can sequence all that kind stuff on the MPC for external synths/FX gear etc.

You can start out with the MPC1000 and load it up with samples and loops you create in your DAW. if you box smart that might be all you need.

you can check out my soundcloud page to get an idea of the range of sounds I'm getting out my EMX but its taken me quite a long time to really squeeze a lot out of it.

robosardine · Post by **robosardine** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:16 pm

Keep away from the EMU command stations is my advice. I found them to be tedious to programme patterns with- providing me with a workflow too slow to be near acceptable- I find them to be a nightmare- and I have had a lot of gear ( there is a reason why there is hardly any youtube videos of them compared to the others- They are just not popular). I agree the MC 505 squencer is not as intuitive/ easy as the Electribes. The MC 909 has a sustain bug issue- which puts a lot of people off-(when you change patterns all sounds stop dead in the water- echoes- cymbals etc).
Have you thought of a Boss SP 505- as part of your set-up?- Very affordable secondhand if you are on a budget.
Anyway from the options you gave I would say- the MPC 1000 (not 500) and a Korg Electribe.... but not the EMX- for what you are doing I would couple it with an ESX without a doubt. For me the EMX is far more suited to Techno/ DnB etc. Any change left over? get a kaoss pad to share between them.... bliss.
So MPC1000 Electribe ESX and a Kaoss Pad in my opinion is your best bet

balma · Post by **balma** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:16 pm

robosardine wrote:Keep away from the EMU command stations is my advice. I found them to be tedious to programme patterns with- providing me with a workflow too slow to be near acceptable- I find them to be a nightmare- and I have had a lot of gear ( there is a reason why there is hardly any youtube videos of them compared to the others- They are just not popular). I agree the MC 505 squencer is not as intuitive/ easy as the Electribes. T

I do not interfer with advices sustented on reasonable, logic facts, but I can´t avoid to express a big disagreement with this one, since somebody is requiring information to make an investment on a musical instrument, and this is a bad advice.

The command stations are maybe the most complex rompler engines available on the market. No other rompler engines provides a wider palette and synthesis possibilities than them.

They also have one of the most splendid digital filter sections ever made, the Z-plane filters, wich provice 50 different filters from 2 to 12 order, wich can be even manipulated as an effect section.

The modulation matrix has 96 programmable patchcords per patch, where you can even design your own LFOs, interpolate between multiple waveforms, assign a unlimited amount of fuctions per knob, white, pink noise, lag processors, and several types of random generators.

You can even design a single patch, using 12 different waveforms, reprogramming the controllers to manipulate the modulation matrix, use 12 chorus effects on a single patch, and a different filter per waveform.

In fact, this is one of the most extensive modulation matrix included on a digital synth.

Plus an hyper intuitive sequencer, wich can modify the length of a pattern on realtime (while playing), mix patterns between them, compress 16 tracks into a single track, manipulate two external synths, while using the internal engine, transmit and play 16 arpeggios at the same time, enter grid, mix, record and edition mode on the fly, etc, etc etc.

and....Youtube´s entries for command station, or any other synthesizer, have nothing related with the capabilities of a synth, please.....

Mostly, you won´t find too much over them, since most of the owners, are making music, not Youtube demos. The yahoo groups are really active with several owners, lots of them, know about the power and capabilities of this instrument, and keep voice down.... for good reasons.

They are not an instrument for everybody, since they require a LOT of dedication. Not for being tedious, but because they have an enormous, very versatile and multifunctional engine. With a dedicated user, they can blow out of the water most of the modern VAs...

They are around $350 now, wich is a ridiculous price for what you get: a great sequencer, a great midi controller, simple amazing filter section, an engine to explore and squeeze during decades, and one of the best arpeggio sections you can find....

Sounds and music can be provided if required.

Hugo · Post by **Hugo** » Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:29 am

Thanx for your insightful review, Balma, you made me really want to look further into these boxes

balma · Post by **balma** » Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:11 pm

Be sure to get one with the 1.17 O.S. installed.

There´s an abysmal difference between the first O.S. and the update to 1.17. Almost like two different machines.

In order to get the best of the command stations, you must learn to program the modulation matrix. This could take a lot of time, practice and experimentation. That´s the problem

It has around 60 sources and more than 100 destinations.
Each patch can use 4 waveforms in normal mode (12 with link function) with 24 patch cord slots per waveform. This means, 96 connections per single patch.

The 16 knobs can be used to control them, and you can assign as many functions you want, per knob. You can crossfade between waveforms, increase filter on some of them while decreasing it in other ones, interconnect LFOS between them in multiple ways, etc. The amount of combinations to create weird sounds is very large....

there are 15 different LFOs, chorus effects can be manipulated by the ADSR envelopes, and the stages of them, can be synchronized with the tempo.

There are so much possibilities to program sounds.... I´ve owned lots of romplers during the last 15 years, and no other one, can barely touch this engine.

You can even emulate a Fizmo (I have one) with a command station.

Now, they cost $300-350, but adding ROMs could increase a lot their value, since each one goes from $75 to $300, depending of wich ROMs you´re looking for.

The sequencer is tight. You can use tracks to control external gear, internal sounds, to bring on motion sequences or Continuous controller changes, compress multiple MIDI channels into a single track, transmit or perform arpeggios, everything inside a single pattern, wich can be extended from 1 to 32 measure. Knobs can be used to input notes, send MIDI data, mix the patterns, tweak the patches, create beat effects, roll, erase, repeat notes, without pressing stop or freezing the sequence.

the manual is HUGE and very detailed, almost 400 pages, due to the impressive amount of features you get in this box.

Great sequencer, scientific filter section, great arpeggio section (you can program 100 user arpeggios), customizable controller surface for manipulating external gear , and lots of extras like the super beats section, and a really flexible engine offering infinite possibilities for sound design.

The command station can even process external audio!!! There are 4 line inputs, with stereo jack detector. These inputs, function like individual outputs on normal mode, something really unusual. But when you connect a stereo 1/4 plug, they send the individual output, and process external audio using the stereo ring.

sohatyi · Post by **sohatyi** » Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:33 pm

The IO on the Proteus line (P1K based and up including the command module and command station) is unique. As mentioned, it is a send return bus, also plugging a Single trs connector into one mono out turns it into a stereo out. I was sampling on my emx using a single out and realised I was getting stereo samples. Seriously, somebody needs to update the command stations for the 21st century. I.e. a big screen and ability to read regular sd cards etc. They'd kill the competition dead.

Edit: The more I talk about the command station, the sadder I get... So much power, set behind 1999 limitations. Listen to the Planet earth module with some of the arp patterns... That's 14 years ago, why can't we do that in hardware now? If we can't top that, we may as well give up and just all move to laptops. I despair.

Hugo · Post by **Hugo** » Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:41 pm

Sounds awesome, I'll def pick up one if I come across one when I have some extra cash

sohatyi · Post by **sohatyi** » Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:45 pm

Compared to the emx or 505 they're buggy and frustrating to work with. Modern tech and a bigger screen would sort it all out (well and a few more fx). I have five or six emu boxes and they sound amazing but frustrate the help out of me. They're like owning a really nice sports car that's known to be unreliable. Somebody please update them.

Hugo · Post by **Hugo** » Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:48 pm

btw: are there any computer editors for these beauties?

sohatyi · Post by **sohatyi** » Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:54 pm

There's a freeware Proteus editor, which has full graphical editing of each patch. However,the midi is prone to some kind of panic/fuckup on the proteus line, leaving you having to factory reset the bugger. I lost several patches I'd made on my Virtuoso 2000 thanks to that.

The editor is called Prodatum and is very good though.