EXTERNAL & INTERNAL CONTROL @SAME TIME

[apex]

is this possible?

I know you can use the Kronos control panel to control external midi devices and I know that you can use the faders (in combi or sequencer mode) to control the volume of external midi devices... but can these two features be used simultaneously?

During my thought process....

In the external midi device you can use CC messages and attach those CC messages to volume/level of the external devices. So of course you can just go into external mode and assign those CC numbers to the faders/knobs etc.

But what if you want to layer (in combi/sequencer mode) sounds from external devices with sounds from within the Kronos?

you can't assign CC messages to the faders in combi/sequencer mode... unless I am missing something?!?!?!

I do have one idea about how to do this.... but it could get a little messy. That idea would be to load a multi-timbrel vst. (allows access to several midi channels all within one instance of the vst) that may be a feasible solution.....


is there a way?!?!? thanks.

[apex]

the reason the multi-timbrel vst may not work is because then ALL the plugs will have to be able to be loaded into the MTvst. (multi-timbrel vst)

sometimes that may not be possible.

The host is audiophile engineering RAX. very nice too... check it out.

[MarPabl]

External is just one mode of the Control Surface

So, you can mix both functions just by changing the mode you're using on the Control Surface for Combi mode. When you want to change internal Timbre's volume, then you use Timbre 1-8 or Timbre 9-16 modes, and when you need to control an external gear, you just use External mode.

I don't think you can use the Timbre volume to send CC 7 even if the Timbre is configured as EXT or EXT2. This is because, AFAIK Kronos uses SysEx to change volume on individual Timbres. But it's worth the try... give it a shot

[apex]

if you could actually assign cc#7 to that fader (and the specific midi channel) it would work. but you can't (at least not as far as I can tell)

yeah, i considered the switching back and forth... but that's not very userfriendly to keep switching back and forth between modes... I don't guess at least.

i mean volume isn't something that you're gonna fiddle with too much during a performance anyway. but less button pushes is always better!!!

[MarPabl]

Your next step may be controlling everything from External mode on Control Surface... by doing so, I'm assuming you'll go into some MIDI routings on the DAW in order that some of the MIDI that is going out from the Control Surface will return to Kronos and therefore will control the internal Timbres... be prepared to read about the SysEx messages needed to do so

Also, you may have another chance by using some of the KARMA modules which mess with MIDI CC. I really have no experience with those, but you may investigate further on KARMA-Lab Forums

[apex]

not using a daw. this is for live use. I'm using a host called RAX. it's by audiofile engineering.

http://www.audiofile-engineering.com/rax/

It's very similar in purpose to Mainstage (by Logic)

[zzz]

What if you plug an ipad in the back, and control both from there with one of the midi/control surface apps?

[apex]

What if you plug an ipad in the back, and control both from there with one of the midi/control surface apps?

That could work.... But it doesn't really seem like you should have to have an ipad to do this....although, I do have an ipad.

I am trying to set this up using a Kronos but most likely will actually be implemented on an m3. (Just in case that matters.... I know a lot of the setup will be the exact same though)

If I could just get the rax software to respond to the midi channels that the individual plugin strips are assigned to, this problem could go away real fast. They respond correctly to midi input and the triggering of the sounds per plugin/strip... But for some reason the cc07 message (channel volume) won't respond per mid channel. But only globally....

[Shakil]

What if you plug an ipad in the back, and control both from there with one of the midi/control surface apps?

That could work.... But it doesn't really seem like you should have to have an ipad to do this....although, I do have an ipad.

I am trying to set this up using a Kronos but most likely will actually be implemented on an m3. (Just in case that matters.... I know a lot of the setup will be the exact same though)

If I could just get the rax software to respond to the midi channels that the individual plugin strips are assigned to, this problem could go away real fast. They respond correctly to midi input and the triggering of the sounds per plugin/strip... But for some reason the cc07 message (channel volume) won't respond per mid channel. But only globally....

Apex,

Use Expression Midi CC10? instead of Volume. That should do the trick.

[apex]

What if you plug an ipad in the back, and control both from there with one of the midi/control surface apps?

That could work.... But it doesn't really seem like you should have to have an ipad to do this....although, I do have an ipad.

I am trying to set this up using a Kronos but most likely will actually be implemented on an m3. (Just in case that matters.... I know a lot of the setup will be the exact same though)

If I could just get the rax software to respond to the midi channels that the individual plugin strips are assigned to, this problem could go away real fast. They respond correctly to midi input and the triggering of the sounds per plugin/strip... But for some reason the cc07 message (channel volume) won't respond per mid channel. But only globally....

Apex,

Use Expression Midi CC10? instead of Volume. That should do the trick.

You can't assign midi cc to the faders while still in track/mixer mode on the control surface. The pre set message that is hard set to the fader while in track/mixer mode is cc07 volume level.

It would be easy if I could assign my own cc. There. You can actually set the software to respond to whatever you want and then assign that cc to whatever parameter you want (almost).

The problem is that I can't assign cc To control external AND control internal volume of individual channels all at the same time.

[Sparker]

If you want to control the volume of external midi devices and the volume of a timbre in a Combi simultaneously can you not set the 'Status' of the Timbre parameter to 'Both' and the Kronos volume control sliders then controls both internal and external device at the same time?

(Combination P2: Timbre Parameters -> Midi -> Status -> Both)

Or am I on the wrong track and you want to control other parameters in both devices simultaneously ? ....

[apex]

If you want to control the volume of external midi devices and the volume of a timbre in a Combi simultaneously can you not set the 'Status' of the Timbre parameter to 'Both' and the Kronos volume control sliders then controls both internal and external device at the same time?

(Combination P2: Timbre Parameters -> Midi -> Status -> Both)

Or am I on the wrong track and you want to control other parameters in both devices simultaneously ? ....

i want control of BOTH devices at the same time... not control of both devices with ONE fader. and there is no "BOTH" option that I can see...

[Dniss]

Hi Apex, not sure if that will help:

It kinda of funny you mentionned this, I ran in the same prlm 2 days ago.

In my device, it's CC-7 + midi channel for strip number for volume control. So what what I ended up doing in the kronos is setting strip 12 as Ext and midi ch 12. All my internal Kronos timbers (strip 1 to 5) are set as Int ch. 12. So my 5 first faders are used for the Kronos, sounding on ch 12, freeing up ch 1 to 11 and 13.

Then I've setup strip 6 in the kronos to Ext ch 1, so I can use the kronos fader on strip 6 to control the first strip volume in my device, setup strip 7 in the kronos to Ext ch 2, controlling the 2nd strip in my device, and so on...

I hope you understand. It's a little tricky, requires more planning, but it works!

Obviously if you're using more than 15 strips in total for both device, you're stuck.

[apex]

Hi Apex, not sure if that will help:

It kinda of funny you mentionned this, I ran in the same prlm 2 days ago.

In my device, it's CC-7 + midi channel for strip number for volume control. So what what I ended up doing in the kronos is setting strip 12 as Ext and midi ch 12. All my internal Kronos timbers (strip 1 to 5) are set as Int ch. 12. So my 5 first faders are used for the Kronos, sounding on ch 12, freeing up ch 1 to 11 and 13.

Then I've setup strip 6 in the kronos to Ext ch 1, so I can use the kronos fader on strip 6 to control the first strip volume in my device, setup strip 7 in the kronos to Ext ch 2, controlling the 2nd strip in my device, and so on...

I hope you understand. It's a little tricky, requires more planning, but it works!

Obviously if you're using more than 11 strips in total for both device, you're stuck.

I don't understand....I will read again though.

[Dniss]

Ok. sorry I'm not to good to explain midi stuff.

Let me start by asking you this:

In your device, say you want to control the first strip volume slider, is the midi command:

CC-007 CH:1

Then the second strip volume slider:

CC-007, CH:2

and so on?