M3 still worth it ?

CJ4ever · Post by **CJ4ever** » Fri May 10, 2013 7:50 pm

Hi all,

I have a chance of buying an M3 Exp. 61k through a friend of mine.

My situation:

I have a Korg Triton Le and Yamaha MOX6.

I love the sounds of MOX a lot and the Triton is my 'buddy' for some years.

Eventhough I like the Mox sounds, the keybed and me are not 'friends'.
Happens too often that I accidentally press two keys same time during live gigs.

My possible plan: Replace both the Mox and Triton by M3 and a midi keyboard to control the M3.

What are your thoughts about the above ?

(Btw, about sounds: my style varies from r&b to pop and reggae )

Thank you !

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Bald Eagle · Post by **Bald Eagle** » Fri May 10, 2013 8:01 pm

Is it worth it? Well that partially depends on the price you will pay. The original Kronos 61 is going for around $2200 so if it's between that and a brand new M3 at full price then you may want to consider the Kronos. Also an EXB-Radias is a must for the M3 in my opinion and if you can even find one that will add to the cost.

That being said I think the M3 is still a very good choice and has many of the features and sounds of the Kronos/OASYS minus the extra engines. I love mine and will never give them up.

CJ4ever · Post by **CJ4ever** » Fri May 10, 2013 8:16 pm

Thanks for the quick reply Bald Eagle.

Oh I got some extra info :

The M3 that I could buy is 2nd-hand (but taken care of well, I know how he handelshis stuff) and it has the ExB with piano, wooodwinds and brass and also the Radias board added.

So I thought if I can make a good 2nd-hand price, it may cover my 'needs' also for the coming years. Don't know if I 'need' the Kronos (with all respect, at this moment I can only dream about having that, because of the price also)

AND I thought that this expanded M3 + a midikeyboard (with aftertouch) to control the M3 may well-replace my setup of Triton Le and Yamaha MOX6 ?

Bald Eagle · Post by **Bald Eagle** » Fri May 10, 2013 9:15 pm

It will certainly replace the Triton and although the MOX6 has some of the unique Yamaha sounds I think you can find suitable substitutes on the M3.

I would say go for it then. And the M3 61 keybed is very nice, the best synth action that Korg makes in my opinion. It's semi weighted with very nice action and it's velocity sensitive with aftertouch so unless you need a 73 or 88 that M3 will be fine.

Synthoid · Post by **Synthoid** » Fri May 10, 2013 10:35 pm

Bald Eagle wrote:The original Kronos 61 is going for around $2200

Where?

Bald Eagle · Post by **Bald Eagle** » Fri May 10, 2013 10:55 pm

Synthoid wrote:
Bald Eagle wrote:The original Kronos 61 is going for around $2200
Where?

I've seen them at that price in two different Sam Ash stores and one Guitar Center store. I know that at least one of the Sam Ash Kronos was the floor model and I don't know about the others.

The Guitar Center website lists factory restock model for $2239. Very tempting.

They have to get rid of the originals somehow and it seems no one really wants them. Maybe due to the bad rep they got whether valid or not.

Pcode · Post by **Pcode** » Fri May 10, 2013 11:12 pm

Hell yeah! I sold my 61 key Korg Kronos and got M3 88 the sounds are awesome... it has that M1/T3 soul! not to mention the sexy all aluminum and wood body!

Hugo · Post by **Hugo** » Fri May 10, 2013 11:36 pm

Beware of the lack of an arpeggiator in the M3, though. It features Karma insted, but that isn't necessary to evryones liking.

Bald Eagle · Post by **Bald Eagle** » Sat May 11, 2013 12:29 am

Hugo wrote:Beware of the lack of an arpeggiator in the M3, though. It features Karma insted, but that isn't necessary to evryones liking.

Karma Generated Effects (arps) can be tweaked quite a bit on the M3 and are much more powerful than traditional arps. But if you are not content with the results you will have to purchase the karma software from karma-lab. And creating your own is not a simple task.

Hugo · Post by **Hugo** » Sat May 11, 2013 8:49 am

Bald Eagle wrote:
Hugo wrote:Beware of the lack of an arpeggiator in the M3, though. It features Karma insted, but that isn't necessary to evryones liking.
Karma Generated Effects (arps) can be tweaked quite a bit on the M3 and are much more powerful than traditional arps. But if you are not content with the results you will have to purchase the karma software from karma-lab. And creating your own is not a simple task.

Yes, and that's the problem. For me, any preset, whether it's a synth patch or an arpeggio, is totally uninteresting. I have to create my own stuff. Unfortunately, the Karma software is quite challenging, and not something I want to spend a lot of time with (I haven't got the time, anyways).

So, for me, a traditional programmable arp is preferable.
Maybe I'm missing out on something great, I don't know

Stipes Vigilo · Post by **Stipes Vigilo** » Sat May 11, 2013 4:04 pm

I handed my M3exp w/exbRadias over to my wife when I bought my KronosX88.
I also have two Yamaha Motif's in the rack (ES & XS).
Bearing that in mind;

For your styles of music, I would venture to say the EXBRadias is not really necessary. But I have to say the Yamahas are what complete the sound.

M3 has a better keybed in my opinion.
Yamaha has the quicker/easier edits for arpeggiator.
I use the pianos on the motif xs before anything on the M3.
I know that is a personal preference I attribute to lessons with my main piano teacher's Yamaha Studio Grand when young. Kind of like comfort food I suppose.

About the Karma software. I bought it and installed it, but did not authorize it.
The first time I opened up my DAW (Sonar) I noticed a significant decrease in processing, so I opened my resource center and found the culprit was the PACE software required by Karma. A background service requiring 7 threads to run. I uninstalled it and efficiency returned to normal. So now I'm considering running it on a separate laptop/netbook by itself. IMO, PACE is more evil than any pirate/hacker.

So I suggest the M3 with a Motif rack (we use EMU XBoards to control them when needed to separate from our Korgs).
If you use the arpeggiator, then the ESr is easier to access on the fly, but if sounds are more important and you want/need to match MOX, then the XSr is the way to go.

add/edit: The Kronos does everything for my needs now, especially the pianos. But the Japanese Grand and the Yamaha Motif XS grands are still different and I still go back to the motif because of it. I also find the guitars on the motif a better use of resources in my overall system as they have that separate dedicated processing that mimics the guitarist mentality of individuality.

Bald Eagle · Post by **Bald Eagle** » Sat May 11, 2013 4:49 pm

Stipes Vigilo wrote: About the Karma software. I bought it and installed it, but did not authorize it.
The first time I opened up my DAW (Sonar) I noticed a significant decrease in processing, so I opened my resource center and found the culprit was the PACE software required by Karma. A background service requiring 7 threads to run. I uninstalled it and efficiency returned to normal. So now I'm considering running it on a separate laptop/netbook by itself. IMO, PACE is more evil than any pirate/hacker.

I have Sonar X2 64 bit and the Karma software installed on Windows 8 64 bit and don't notice any performance issues with PACE. It shows as having 21 threads but no CPU usage. What is your environment? Also, do you have both Sonar and Karma running at the same time? I can't run them both at the same time dues to 32/64 bit issues with the Korg usb driver so maybe that's why I'm not seeing the performance problem.

And regardless, I agree that PACE is evil or maybe it's just karma's implementation of it. The one shipped with karma-M3 didn't even work. I had to go to the PACE site to get an update myself. Maybe an updated driver will help with your performance issues.

Don Audio Labs · Post by **Don Audio Labs** » Sat May 11, 2013 5:08 pm

Can you guys elaborate on this PACE Software?

Do you have to be online in order to perform a handshake and actually use karma?

If yes, do you have to be online only once or every time you use the karma software?

(Sorry for jacking the Thread with this)

Bald Eagle · Post by **Bald Eagle** » Sat May 11, 2013 5:33 pm

Don Audio Labs wrote:Can you guys elaborate on this PACE Software?

Do you have to be online in order to perform a handshake and actually use karma?

If yes, do you have to be online only once or every time you use the karma software?

(Sorry for jacking the Thread with this)

It's anti-piracy software that can be implemented in different ways. With Karma's implementation a string of characters is generated by the software when you install karma. You send this code to karma-lab and they send another code back via email which you copy/paste into the software. You never have to be online to actually use the software after that. If you ever get a new PC like I did last year you have to do this again. Stephen Kay is very good about this and will send a new registration code if you request one. It's just an annoying process but not really a big deal.

Don Audio Labs · Post by **Don Audio Labs** » Sat May 11, 2013 5:47 pm

Bald Eagle wrote:It's anti-piracy software that can be implemented in different ways. With Karma's implementation a string of characters is generated by the software when you install karma. You send this code to karma-lab and they send another code back via email which you copy/paste into the software. You never have to be online to actually use the software after that. If you ever get a new PC like I did last year you have to do this again. Stephen Kay is very good about this and will send a new registration code if you request one. It's just an annoying process but not really a big deal.

Well that's fine then. Nothing wrong with some one-time challenge-response DRM. Kinda weird that even after Authentication the PACE-Software processes reside in memory though...

I was just worried that it would require me to be always-on.

Thanks for the details.