Connecting R3 to Triton Le Sequencer - basic midi questions

[AdamPW]

So I have owned a Triton Le for years and only ever used this one workstation and the on board sequencer. recently I bought an R3 which I love and is so much fun. I have connected the R3 to the Triton via midi (out to in, in to out) and the synths are talking! But as a complete rookie when it comes to midi I am experiencing some teething pains and the manuals are confusing.

What I am trying to do: play the R3 and record to the Triton sequencer, along with drum and other sounds from the Triton. Mix and match sounds but with the Triton controlling the playback.

Here's the problem: it sort of works, I have been able to play and record a track from the R3. But both keyboards are playing patches on the other, simultaneously. So during playback you get the original track plus a random drum pattern or whatever that the Triton is playing along in time. Ive tried playing around with the midi settings but cant seem to get the right combo. here's what I have set:
On the R3: local On and clock internal. Global position post KBD
On the Triton: local Off and midi clock external

Some of the posts refer to "echo back" but I cant find that on the Le settings or in the manual index anywhere.

I am also wondering if it should be possible to play with vocoder on the R3 and have the Triton record and play back the vocoded track via its sequencer. During my experimentation what happened was some vocoder data got recorded but is just made a swishing effect in the triton drum track during playback!

So obviously I have some things arse backwards here, wondering if any of you kind souls can point me in the right direction. I am totally new to midi and not planning to use a computer at this stage. As far as I can tell, my two machines should work well together I just have to set them up correctly.

A big thank you to anyone who can help me

[X-Trade]

Standard setup with multiple synths is to put each on it's own channel.

In this case it's easiest to leave the Triton's global on ch1 and change the R3's global ch in settings to 3 or 11 or something. (By convention 10 is usually drums but doesn't have to be. )

Then they won't play eachother at all by default.
Instead, you can record into the corresponding sequencer track that is set to that MIDI channel.

In Sequencer mode, selecting the active track causes the Triton's keyboard to transmit on that channel also, so you can play the sound from either whilst you are recording that part.

In combi mode, you can set a timbre mode to EXT and it will retransmit the global channel (keyboard, joystick, etc) onto the specified channel.

In both sequencer and combis, the program number, volume, and pan will automatically be transmitted on EXT or BTH tracks by the triton when selecting that combi or starting that song. This helps you to keep your song together by remembering the right program number and allowing you to mix all from one place.


Also:
- On the R3 set clock to External (so it uses incoming clock).
- On the Triton set clock to Internal (so it becomes the master clock and uses it's internal clock).
This is most appropriate when using the Triton sequencer for example, you want the tempo to be set by the song, not the patch you've selected on the R3.


As always, YMMV.

[AdamPW]

Thanks for the tips!
I set the global midi channel to 1 on the Triton, and to 11 on the R3
Now I am in sequencer mode and when I go to track 11, once I have selected the sound I want on the R3 it is showing up as "G032" from the GM bank on the Triton which is a guitar sound. So it is still playing the guitar sound simultaneously when I play the R3 synth patch. But you are right I can play the track from either keyboard it's just that I get duplicate instruments still.
It records fine and the tempo works, but it plays back both instruments.
So I must be doing several things right, per your instructions, but something basic is wrong.
I wasn't able to locate the EXT setting you said, maybe that is it.
It records beautifully actually, apart from the unwanted accompaniment!
I must be so near to making this work!
Thanks again mate!

[xmlguy]

While I can understand why you might want to use the R3 and Triton together that way, I have to say that I think it would be far better to do it in a completely different way than you've envisioned. Computer DAW software is where all midi and audio tracks are recorded, edited, and controlled these days. We just don't do these things in keyboard sequencers much anymore because the hardware just doesn't even remotely compare to what you can do on a computer with a nice large, color LCD screen and a mouse (and/or touchscreen).

So instead of trying to get your Triton to be the master sequencer, research the DAW software options instead to pick one that works best for your purposes. I suggest Ableton Live Lite at a minimum with a nice 20+ inch screen or better. Widescreens and dual/triple LCD work even better for horizontal tracks. When the DAW becomes the master midi controller, then you can separately work with the Triton and R3 without any coordination between them. But more importantly, you'll have a lot more power and control over the midi/audio tracks.

This isn't to say that you can't get the Triton to control the R3 the way you want. I'm just saying it isn't worth bothering to try to do it because the result will always be so much inferior to using the DAW instead. But just in case you want to know, you need to mute the part in the Triton menu so that only the midi is transmitted and not played in the internal sound module.

Since you were asking about the vocoder, nothing about the vocoder can usually be recorded or played via midi. For example, if you play an R3 vocoder part with live vocals, the typical way it's used, none of that audio vocoding result can be recorded via midi. That's because midi is not audio. It's music data - only reflecting the note values/velocities that you played - which are exactly the same with a vocoded part or synth part. If you play a C3 major chord with velocity 127, then those notes and velocities that make up the chord keypresses are what is sent via midi. The audio of the vocoder could be recorded separately if you have a Triton with sampling, but again, this is something much better done in software these days.

However, the R3 has a rather powerful vocoder that lets you internally record up to 16 different vocodes as formant motion waveforms. Formant motion means "vocoder vocal source band waveforms". So if you make a program to convert a vocoder program into a formant motion program (using the internal synth as the audio carrier, not an external audio source), then you can make the R3 playback a "vocoder" sound via any midi controller. This is a more advanced use of the R3, since you need to know the vocoder and programming rather well to get all the pieces in place. It's also something that can't be done on the MicroKorg Classic or XL's, only on the R3 and Radias that have the formant motion features.

[AdamPW]

Wow that's a lot of great advice, thanks. I've no doubt I will migrate to software recording at some point, due to the flexibility.
In the meantime I will look for the track mute function - I tried this before and it muted both keyboards, so will look harder.
Also a nice tip on the internal vocoding feature. I picked the R3 a couple of weeks ago and have barely scratched the surface. It is a great machine which I was able to source used for the same price as a microkorg.
Appreciate the help!

[X-Trade]

Thanks for the tips!
I set the global midi channel to 1 on the Triton, and to 11 on the R3
Now I am in sequencer mode and when I go to track 11, once I have selected the sound I want on the R3 it is showing up as "G032" from the GM bank on the Triton which is a guitar sound. So it is still playing the guitar sound simultaneously when I play the R3 synth patch. But you are right I can play the track from either keyboard it's just that I get duplicate instruments still.
It records fine and the tempo works, but it plays back both instruments.
So I must be doing several things right, per your instructions, but something basic is wrong.
I wasn't able to locate the EXT setting you said, maybe that is it.
It records beautifully actually, apart from the unwanted accompaniment!
I must be so near to making this work!
Thanks again mate!

Yeah you definitely need the EXT setting. It's in timbre/track parameters. That's MENU button > PRM1
in sequencer mode you'll see everything is set to BTH by default.

[AdamPW]

It works! Mystery solved. Thanks man.