Load required samples and factory preload ksc

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 2:50 pm

I have a question concerning "Load required samples".

If I start the Kronos without autoloads and then go through the programs using sample data from factory autoload, loading required sample data for each one I really use, would I lose the streaming status of any samples, after saving the result of all of the loaded stuff into one new KSC?

I ask, because I have completely reorganized my Kronos, kicking out lots of factory programs while using additional sound libraries. So will my stripped down version of factory preload be smaller than the original in the end, or perhaps even bigger due to some loss of sample streaming? I just want to be sure not to end up with all sample data in (too little) RAM after rearranging.

Or (as I presume) does a changed autoload ksc just point to the status of the sub-KSCs (HDI- and EXi sample data) used, using streaming if available there?

Yuma · Post by **Yuma** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 10:21 pm

If you save it into a new KSC-file, then it should automatically create a Userbank_.KSC-file as well.
This one automatically enables streaming from disk and is the one you have to set in auto-load.

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:07 am

So far I got userbank-files this way, but apparently with 0 byte length in the autoload directory. So I thought they can't be the answer, and in fact they didn't work.

The autoload kscs obviously must reference both RAM and streaming data from the various sample libraries, but I don't know how that is organized.

My aim is to pre-load only sample data which I actually use in my system (my own choice of programs present in my PCGs).

Yuma · Post by **Yuma** » Sun Dec 21, 2014 6:01 pm

I think I understand what you mean. So what if you start with 1 program only (no samples autoloaded in RAM).
When you load the sample that is referenced in that program, is the Kronos actually loading the complete sample in RAM or just the streaming reference part?

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:22 pm

Yes, I have already planned to check the whole issue after Christmas, as soon as I find some time.

Probably the only ones being able to answer that question straight away are some Korg staff members.

phenaste · Post by **phenaste** » Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:27 am

Hi,

I just take a look at the Parameters Guide version E8 (latest OS 3.02).
At page 1152, it explains that .KSC stands for Korg Sample Collection.
The .KSC is simply a text file. Here is the first lines from EXs11 - Legendary Strings .KSC file :

Code: Select all

#KORG Script Version 1.0
#v2
#>Bank10.275.0.Legendary Strings
#>EXS10.MS0.1.0.Stradivari Vibrato-L    
#>EXS10.MS1.1.0.Stradivari Vibrato-R    
#>EXS10.MS2.1.0.Stradivari Arco p       
#>EXS10.MS3.1.0.Stradivari Arco mp      
#>EXS10.MS4.1.0.Stradivari Arco mf      
#>EXS10.MS5.1.0.Stradivari Arco f       
#>EXS10.MS6.1.0.Stradivari Arco ff      
#>EXS10.MS7.1.0.Stradivari Pizzicato-L  
#>EXS10.MS8.1.0.Stradivari Pizzicato-R  
#>EXS10.MS9.1.0.Stradivari Tremolo-L    
#>EXS10.MS10.1.0.Stradivari Tremolo-R    
#>EXS10.MS11.1.0.Stradivari Trill H.Stp-L
#>EXS10.MS12.1.0.Stradivari Trill H.Stp-R
#>EXS10.MS13.1.0.Stradivari Trill W.Stp-L
#>EXS10.MS14.1.0.Stradivari Trill W.Stp-R
#>EXS10.MS15.1.0.Stradivari Gliss Up-L   
#>EXS10.MS16.1.0.Stradivari Gliss Up-R

Each multisample is in the form
#>EXS<BankNumberBase0>.MS<SampleIndex>.<PLAYBACK_MODE>.<ReservedForFutureUse>.<Sample>
With PLAYBACK_MODE : 0 = RAM, 1 = Virtual Memory

And if you look at the Op Guide page 156, you'll see that user samples are editable into the RAM but can't access to the Virtual Memory. But if you loaded samples as UserBank, it can access to the Virtual Memory but can't be ediatbled at this state.

So, from this two points, I think that if you use the "Autoload" feature, you'll don't loose the Virtual Memory capability of the original sample, and moreover you can edit the .KSC to revert to the original state if something lost.
I wouldn't be worry about that feature.

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:55 am

Thanks, phenaste!
That encourages me to invest the time and streamline my autostart configuration concerning sampling space as well.

I'm already really happy with customizing my whole pcg bank structure so far. No more factory banks with sounds I don't use in my autoload, just the sounds I want, in my own new order. Everything is in place in good overview now, and VA sounds are organized according to the different engines with their different sound character.

This way after 3 years of Kronos use, I've finally got the fastest and most direct sound access I ever had, kind of my own synth structure, in a very pleasant way. The Kronos is just outstanding allowing that degree of personal customizing!

It's also great that you don't lose anything of the original structure by doing so: I can autoload the old structure (autoload ksc and pcg) within two minutes, whenever I would want to go back and look up something there.

Sweat · Post by **Sweat** » Mon Dec 22, 2014 5:26 pm

As phenaste mentions, I presume viewing and editing the .KSC file is the way to manage multisample streaming, if you desire.

I have been wanting to organize my banks as well, for the same reasons of more efficient use of RAM and storage for only the sounds that I use. This new feature would seem to really help administer that.

So Jim's question is really valid, and I also want to know:

Will selecting "Load required samples" for multisamples with PLAYBACK_MODE set to 1=VirtualMemory, force them to load into RAM?
Or, If they continue to be streamed, then of course it appears necessary to make sure the PRELOAD.KSC (or source KSCs) are still available for reference, after creating your new userbank_.ksc.

Yuma · Post by **Yuma** » Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:36 pm

Sweat wrote:Or, If they continue to be streamed, then of course it appears necessary to make sure the PRELOAD.KSC (or source KSCs) are still available for reference, after creating your new userbank_.ksc.

In that case it would defeat the goal of getting rid of unused samples that are loaded in RAM, because you would still have to load the whole KSC that's being referenced to.

phenaste · Post by **phenaste** » Tue Dec 23, 2014 4:11 pm

Sweat wrote:Will selecting "Load required samples" for multisamples with PLAYBACK_MODE set to 1=VirtualMemory, force them to load into RAM?
Or, If they continue to be streamed, then of course it appears necessary to make sure the PRELOAD.KSC (or source KSCs) are still available for reference, after creating your new userbank_.ksc.

This point needs to be tested but, I presume that the streaming feature is not only wired into the .KSC. To make it possible, I presume the sound data have to be organized in a way that one portion is clearly defined as to be loaded into the RAM and a second portion that can be streamed.

Remember, at first the streaming capability was reserved for EXs bank, the users multisample streaming capability was introduced later.
I don't think, that you can change a "RAM only" based multisample into a "streamed" multisample simply by a change into the .KSC.
Nevertheless, I think that a "streamed" multisample could be forced to be loaded entirely into the RAM, even if it is dude.

So I think that the streaming capability is written into the multisample itself, and the "Autoload feature" can't change it on the fly. The "Autoload feature" will probably choose the safiest way, and reference a multisample into a .KSC with the "Virtual Memory" mode if the multisample is compliant.

Cheers