Remote floor access to pads

Liquid_Metal · Post by **Liquid_Metal** » Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:41 pm

Hey guys,

I'm a guitarist by nature but have been playing keys for a year now (with a KK88) and will do so in my band too. At some songs I want the solos I play to be accompanied by a nice key pad (e.g. strings or choir).
During my solos the singer does not sing so he can use the pads on the display to lay down a nice string layer. But at some sections we want a chord pad underneath a guitar part when he's still singing. So our bass player (and sometimes the singer) can use a floor controller to either access the pads or play chords themselves.

On the one hand I could use any MIDI controller that can send Control Changes to a specific MIDI Channel. For instance the Voodoo Lab GCP, which I currently use to control my guitar rig. However, a MIDI controller sending CCs does not allow sending different values of the CCs, so the pads will always come in equally loud.
On the other hand, a bass controller such as the Roland PK-5A can give different velocities of notes played. But can notes be used to trigger chords or even pads? And I believe the first velocity used to play a chord in the pads remains until a new chord or velocity is played so there can be no swells. Also, if a section has similar chords (such as C major and C minor), the C-key cannot be used intuitively.

Niarf · Post by **Niarf** » Fri Feb 06, 2015 1:38 pm

Are you forced to use a floor board ? A nanopad 2 would do the trick. Otherwise you can get a fcb1010 or other midi pedalboard =) You can configure velocity settings on each pedal, but it's fixed to the value you put.

CyA

Liquid_Metal · Post by **Liquid_Metal** » Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:03 pm

The singer might use his hands to control the pads so a nanopad 2 should work, although he might just walk up to the keyboard and use the actual pads (depends on the space on stage). The bass player, however, can only use his feet so a floor board is necessary. It would be similar to Geddy Lee's control of the synths.

karmathanever · Post by **karmathanever** » Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:12 pm

I use the NanoPad 2 but the actual pads are far from comfortable - I find them to "stiff" (if that's the right word!!) - subtle velocity control very difficult...

The Korg M3 has the best pads - velocity control very comfortable.

See if you can get to try one first….

Cheers

Pete

BobTheDog · Post by **BobTheDog** » Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:39 pm

How about one of these: http://www.keithmcmillen.com/products/12-step/

Liquid_Metal · Post by **Liquid_Metal** » Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:50 pm

BobTheDog wrote:How about one of these: http://www.keithmcmillen.com/products/12-step/

I came across the 12-step controller. It can send chords (i.e. a preprogrammed combination of notes) with every button, of which the velocity can be influenced by pressing harder or softer. Although this is cool, it would imply that the one operating the unit has to change patches between songs (as one song might use a C major and another a C minor). As the Kronos will change anyway, I think it's easier if only the Kronos has to be changed.
On the other hand, perhaps the Kronos can be used to change programs in the 12-step. If so that would be perfect.

As far as I understood the 12-step can also send Control Changes. That would give direct control to the Kronos pad, but then step intensity probably does not work, like with a normal MIDI controller. I think that if we want a controller to send notes as chords, the 12-step controller is perfect because the intensity can be controlled.

Liquid_Metal · Post by **Liquid_Metal** » Fri Feb 06, 2015 5:04 pm

One important criterium, by the way, is that if CCs are being used, the controller must be able to send them on a hold basis. I'm not sure the FCB 1010 is capable of doing so, or whether it can only send on/off by switching twice. That would not work.

Derek Cook · Post by **Derek Cook** » Fri Feb 06, 2015 6:11 pm

BobTheDog wrote:How about one of these: http://www.keithmcmillen.com/products/12-step/

Interesting. Not a bad price as well compared to the ridiculous prices of some MIDI foot pedals. I might be interested in those!

For my foot controller needs, I use a Roland FC300, for patch selection, three expression pedals (two built in, one external) and 5 foot switches (two built in, 3 external)

BobTheDog · Post by **BobTheDog** » Fri Feb 06, 2015 7:47 pm

Liquid_Metal wrote:
BobTheDog wrote:How about one of these: http://www.keithmcmillen.com/products/12-step/
I came across the 12-step controller. It can send chords (i.e. a preprogrammed combination of notes) with every button, of which the velocity can be influenced by pressing harder or softer. Although this is cool, it would imply that the one operating the unit has to change patches between songs (as one song might use a C major and another a C minor). As the Kronos will change anyway, I think it's easier if only the Kronos has to be changed.
On the other hand, perhaps the Kronos can be used to change programs in the 12-step. If so that would be perfect.

As far as I understood the 12-step can also send Control Changes. That would give direct control to the Kronos pad, but then step intensity probably does not work, like with a normal MIDI controller. I think that if we want a controller to send notes as chords, the 12-step controller is perfect because the intensity can be controlled.

I could be wrong but I guess that the Kronos chord play can be controlled by single midi note on/off messages (global P2: controller page") and you can set the soft step to output single midi notes rather than chords. Then you don't have to worry about programming the chords into presets on the foot controller.

As Derek says you could also use something like the FC300 which is a great pedal board, I have one here that has never gone wrong even after the beer test.

Derek Cook · Post by **Derek Cook** » Sat Feb 07, 2015 7:56 am

BobTheDog wrote:
As Derek says you could also use something like the FC300 which is a great pedal board, I have one here that has never gone wrong even after the beer test.

Ah, the beer test.... My EX5 and Novation Remote61 were put through that test a few years back, thanks to an alcoholic bass player! Both survived, but the Novation needed a complete strip down to clean the beer out of its calculator type key PCB.

As you say the FC300 is pretty bomb proof and very flexible.

Liquid_Metal · Post by **Liquid_Metal** » Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:21 pm

Purchased a Nanopad 2 yesterday, which can be used by the singer to access the pads. I have hooked up my Ground Control Pro to the Kronos and sending MIDI CCs also activates the pads. Unfortunately the GCP does not allow velocity, so the volume will always be the same. Since it will be a layer of strings, choirs or similar underneath solo's accompanied by bass guitar and drums, that's probably fine. Therefore a controller such as the Behringer FCB1010 will probably do fine as it can send momentary CC messages (data off when releasing).

psionic311 · Post by **psionic311** » Thu Feb 19, 2015 6:30 am

I use the FCB1010 to play notes with my feet, like Taurus pedals. I have 3 banks set at various pentatonic scales plus another diatonic note as needed, so I switch banks depending on the key of the song. The 2 expression pedals can be programmed to send continuous MIDI CCs. In theory you should be able to set one of them to MIDI volume for swells. But as you said, you should be good with a single volume just for background pads while you solo.

The FCB1010 also has MIDI merge, so you could hook up your GCP to go thru the FCB on to the Kronos. Then you can be like Lifeson and just use the FCB to trigger the Kronos pad chords yourself while you solo. Just a thought =)

Liquid_Metal · Post by **Liquid_Metal** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:21 pm

We tried it using my Ground Control Pro, sending MIDI CC messages. It works, but I am wondering if something is possible.
The bass player has to hold the switch down for as long as he wants the chord/pad to sound and then switch to another for another chord. It would be more awesome if he could toggle a chord, which would play until he pressed the switch again or, more importantly, pressed a different switch. So either the foot controller should send an OFF message of the previous switch when a new switch is pressed, or the Kronos Pads should be set up monophonically.

So can the pads be set up monophonically?
And does anyone know of a controller that can do what I want?

BobTheDog · Post by **BobTheDog** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:11 pm

In the Ground Control Pro set it to use "NORMAL" rather then "MOMENTARY".

This will allow you to press once for on and once for off. Unfortunately I don't think there is a way of cancelling it when you press another switch.

Liquid_Metal · Post by **Liquid_Metal** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:12 pm

BobTheDog wrote:In the Ground Control Pro set it to use "NORMAL" rather then "MOMENTARY".

This will allow you to press once for on and once for off. Unfortunately I don't think there is a way of cancelling it when you press another switch.

Exactly, so then the switch needs to be pressed again to turn off the pad and then another switch has to be pressed for the next one. About as (in)convenient as momentary switching.