Problem with Copy from Program and not enough IFXs

[michelkeijzers]

I regularly make combis, combining programs together with the Copy From Program option and use use the effects from that program with it.

However, sometimes after some time (can be 15 seconds, or a month), I want to change a program with another program. But when I use the Copy from Program again to overwrite a program in a combi, the effects from the removed program are not overwritten, meaning I regularly after a few attempts get a message that not enough IFXs are available.

How do you cope with this problem?

Is there a way to easily remove unused IFXs and compact (removing gaps within IFXs) ?

[BobTheDog]

This is something I would like to know as well as it catches me out all the time.

[jeremykeys]

I haven't found an easy way but what I've learned to do is to first delete all of the IFX that are being used by the prog that I'm going to change. Then I use the "swap IFX" function to move the locations so that I have a large space in which to fit the new IFX.
It's not quick but it works for me.

[JFree]

I usually manually remove what's not needed. I've noticed sometimes there is a limiter copied that's not even in the chain. I think "clean up IFX routings" or something similar is what you want in the menu to remove the gaps.

[jeebustrain]

I manually go into the IFX settings and choose the "cut IFX" option from the dropdown. Fortunately, most of the sounds I use are homegrown and use a minimum of effects, so I find myself doing this mainly only when messing with presets inside of a combi.

[SanderXpander]

Isn't there some "delete unused" option? This doesn't happen to me very often, but cutting them works well enough, the routing is automatically adjusted.

[StephenKay]

If the unused effects are turned off and nothing is routed into them, the "Clean Up IFX Routings" command from the Insert FX tab works well.

[SanderXpander]

Ah yeah that's the one I meant. Thanks.

[Andreuz]

I regularly make combis, combining programs together with the Copy From Program option and use use the effects from that program with it.

Exactly! I recently posted something very similar.

It would great to have a feature with an additional IFX routing option for every track in the Combi that says "Use Program Effects". This way, if you change ANY program in the combi -- whether it is changed manually or via midi program change message, the effects from the program would be automatically loaded. Or better yet, this feature would not even use the IFX slots, it would just simply use the program effects that it took hours to tweak & save in each program.

Yes, in the current KronosX or Kronos2 you could run out of IFX's or just not enough RAM to handle the load if too many programs are loaded. In my case, this would not be an issue as I would only be using 3 or 4 programs.

Anyway, this would be a great feature for a future upgrade and/or the next Korg beast.

Still searching for some kind of work around,
Andreuz

[SanderXpander]

I doubt that this is going to be possible, the current solution works very well except in your very specific situation. Have you tried using the Kronos Editor VST plugin?

[jerrythek]

BTW, that Limiter always comes in because it is used by the Drum Track. We used it to be able to increase the level of the Drum Track during programming. I too wish it wasn't brought in, but there's a reason for it.

Jerry

[Andreuz]

I doubt that this is going to be possible, the current solution works very well except in your very specific situation. Have you tried using the Kronos Editor VST plugin?

Hmmm... If it works so well, then why are others having issues?

Yes, I have tried the VST plugin (that's a good question). Just to list one issue: It is extremely slow response-wise, lags, which makes it impossible to work with. Korg mentioned a new version of the VST Editor would be following the Vr 03 OS. I am hopeful they have not dropped the ball on this... and the new version would perform much better.

Back when I owned a Korg M50-88, the VST Editor plugin worked extremely well and with almost identical interface features.

My apologizes for getting slightly off subject, but that's typically what I see happen in most of these threads... one thing, leads to another.

[Andreuz]

I regularly make combis, combining programs together with the Copy From Program option and use use the effects from that program with it.

Back to the original post...

I think everyone would agree that "effects" are a major part of how a single program sounds. As we create these custom combi(s), we typically are scrolling thru many programs (using the wheel for example) auditioning each as we go in search of the "Perfect Program" for the combi. The way it the IFX/effects section is currently designed, it is difficult to get a true audition to hear how each program sounds, or "fits" in the overall sound of the combi as we are quickly scrolling.

So my point is... not without having to stop for every single, possible, program candidate and "Clean up IFX Routings" & "Copy From Program" & "Cut IFX" & "Swap IFX"... ect. ect. ect., do we truly get an accurately audition in search of the "Perfect Program" for the custom combi.

With that said... IMO, the current architecture for the IFX section in Combi Mode is somewhat backwards. Maybe there is a good reason why it was designed the way it is (most likely because more RAM and computer power would have been required), but I personally can't see any benefit of why it was structured as it currently is. I am sure many of us have spent hours tweaking and enhancing the effects in each program in "Program Mode", I certainly do. So why in the world would we not want to use those same effect settings for each program in the combi and have them "Automatically Load" and be present all the tracks in the combi. If there is a good reason, other than "Ram / computer power", I would sure love to hear it!

My background is 35 years in "Engineering & Design", so my apologizes for getting too technical.

Just my thoughts... and I think we all have the right to post our opinions.
Andreuz

[geoelectro]

Hmm, I don't work that way. I select the programs I want and add effects in the combi. If I made a special program with custom IFX's I would know that and not have to audition them. I would put that one in first and build the rest of the combi out as needed. I do a lot of layers and splits across two keyboards. I very seldom use all 16 slots or all 12 IFX's.

What is actually wanted here? More IFX's! Perhaps in a future workstation. There are 12 total plus 4 in master FX. That "limitation" is likely imposed by the DSP power in hardware. I know VST's have less limitations due to them being all software. Only limited by the overall hardware or computing power.

It's unlikely this can be changed. So, perhaps a different way of working to adjust to the machine.

Geo

[Andreuz]

Hmm, I don't work that way. I select the programs I want and add effects in the combi.
Geo

Exactly, because that is the only way it is currently possible. You just further made my point.