PianoTeq to Sampler

Post by **Sharp** » Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:46 pm

Hi all.
If you fancy something a little relaxing here's a tune I wrote played on a Piano sound I made today. I used Pianoteq (its' a piano modelling engine) to create my idea of a perfect Steinway, and then I used ESC to sample it for my KRONOS. What you hear in the video is the sampled version running on the KRONOS.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/i059G8UyHvk" frameborder="0"></iframe>

Kind regards
Sharp.

lonelagranger · Post by **lonelagranger** » Tue Aug 04, 2015 10:46 pm

Very beautiful. I liked your composition and the piano sound. I also have Pianoteq. I like it very much.

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:34 pm

Sampling a modelled instrument kinda misses the point of having/playing a modelled instrument.

You lose all the interaction between the strings and resonances, and the whole no-velocity-layers deal that Pianoteq offers, etc. Just MIDI Out that sucker

That, and Pianoteq 2 is quite long in the tooth now, you can get a MUCH better Steinway sound using the D4 model in Pianoteq 5...

Sorry, Sharp.

danmusician · Post by **danmusician** » Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:39 pm

Hey Sharp,

I'm curious about the process of using ESC to sample the piano. How much tweaking did you have to do?

I bought a Kronos 2 and was thinking about auto sampling the Berlin piano to load back into my original Kronos. How big of a job am I looking at?

Thanks,

Dan

Ottawa58 · Post by **Ottawa58** » Wed Aug 05, 2015 3:18 pm

First, the song and the playing were very enjoyable. Good stuff!

I have two piano softwares on my computer: pianoteq (which I love), and Ravenscroft (a sampled piano). It would be very cool if you could load pianoteq directly into the kronos and play it from there. Is that even possible?

JimH · Post by **JimH** » Wed Aug 05, 2015 3:26 pm

EvilDragon wrote:Sampling a modelled instrument kinda misses the point of having/playing a modelled instrument. You lose all the interaction between the strings and resonances, and the whole no-velocity-layers deal that Pianoteq offers, etc. Just MIDI Out that sucker

I know you put smilies there and all but I'll respond anyway.

I can see why someone would want to sample it, if your not so crazy about the pianos already in the Kronos. And you don't want to carry around a laptop and interface in addition to the Kronos. One thing I like about the Pianoteq over the Kronos pianos is the initial decay on the attack. In many samples it's too fast but Pianoteq is one of the few I've played where it isn't and you can get a more singing quality.

Bachus · Post by **Bachus** » Wed Aug 05, 2015 4:04 pm

JimH wrote:
EvilDragon wrote:Sampling a modelled instrument kinda misses the point of having/playing a modelled instrument. You lose all the interaction between the strings and resonances, and the whole no-velocity-layers deal that Pianoteq offers, etc. Just MIDI Out that sucker
I know you put smilies there and all but I'll respond anyway. I can see why someone would want to sample it, if your not so crazy about the pianos already in the Kronos. And you don't want to carry around a laptop and interface in addition to the Kronos. One thing I like about the Pianoteq over the Kronos pianos is the initial decay on the attack. In many samples it's too fast but Pianoteq is one of the few I've played where it isn't and you can get a more singing quality.

Maybe its time that someone creates a true keyboardwaorkstation based on VSTs.... With ARPs and Karma and a pattern mode, and all that other stuff that set a keyboardworkstation above a Midicontrolled DAW....

JimH · Post by **JimH** » Wed Aug 05, 2015 4:26 pm

Bachus wrote:Maybe its time that someone creates a true keyboardwaorkstation based on VSTs.... With ARPs and Karma and a pattern mode, and all that other stuff that set a keyboardworkstation above a Midicontrolled DAW....

There was Open Labs eKo. And there's also Muse Receptor (no keyboard). But I guess you're talking about something even more integrated and complete but that still uses VSTs.

Bachus · Post by **Bachus** » Wed Aug 05, 2015 4:35 pm

JimH wrote:
Bachus wrote:Maybe its time that someone creates a true keyboardwaorkstation based on VSTs.... With ARPs and Karma and a pattern mode, and all that other stuff that set a keyboardworkstation above a Midicontrolled DAW....
There was Open Labs eKo. And there's also Muse Receptor (no keyboard). But I guess you're talking about something even more integrated and complete but that still uses VSTs.

Thats not what i mean.... A workstation is so much more then just a collection of sounds... Just look at what a Kronos or even a Motif have to offer witouth the sounds... And you know what is missing in the receptor and the Neko..

The receptor is more like a module based on VSTs... You could compare it to a Roland Integra 7, but not to a Kronos or Motif...

But i think thats a different topic, maybe we should move the discussion back to James performnace and sampled Piano..

Post by **Sharp** » Wed Aug 05, 2015 4:35 pm

EvilDragon wrote:Sampling a modelled instrument kinda misses the point of having/playing a modelled instrument. You lose all the interaction between the strings and resonances, and the whole no-velocity-layers deal that Pianoteq offers, etc. Just MIDI Out that sucker

Your dead right, can't argue with that at all. It is handy to have a very good piano sound like this inside the KRONOS though from time to time.

That, and Pianoteq 2 is quite long in the tooth now, you can get a MUCH better Steinway sound using the D4 model in Pianoteq 5...

Sorry for the confusion. I mean to say "Pianoteq to Sampler".
I actually have version 4 of Pianoteq.

Regards
Sharp.

Post by **Sharp** » Wed Aug 05, 2015 4:52 pm

Hey Sharp,

I'm curious about the process of using ESC to sample the piano. How much tweaking did you have to do?

There's a bit of preparation work in Pinaoteq to do first. I shaped the sound to how I wanted it using it's modelling technology, and not to mess up the sampling process, I had to turn off things like note off effects, and adjust the dynamics of Pianoteq so that a soft note produced a sound in dB the same volume as a note played hard.

Then it's onto sampling with ESC which is pretty much fully automated.

On the KRONOS, I loaded the 5 layers, and applied a filter to smooth over the transitions between velocity layers so that it was hard to hear where different sets of samples were coming in. The Amp modulation needed to be set to give the right velocity curve response. Finally there's the effects.

All in all, to do it right there's quite a bit of work in it, but it was worth the effort to me. I have a great piano sound now that I personally enjoy more than any of the official KORG sounds.

It still doesn’t come close to playing Pianoteq itself though.

I bought a Kronos 2 and was thinking about auto sampling the Berlin piano to load back into my original Kronos. How big of a job am I looking at?

Probably less than what I had to go though if you sample the raw waveforms untouched by the sound engine and effects.

Regards
Sharp.

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Wed Aug 05, 2015 9:47 pm

Sharp wrote:Sorry for the confusion. I mean to say "Pianoteq to Sampler".
I actually have version 4 of Pianoteq.

Yeah it is a bit confusing, perhaps rename the thread title then?

(BTW there ARE differences in the D4 model between v4 and v5, quite significant ones.)

Post by **Sharp** » Thu Aug 06, 2015 11:02 am

I'll certainly upgrade but for me it will be mainly so I can buy the Harp model. My ears can't tell the difference at all between the Piano's in V4 vs the demo's of V5. To me V4 sounds hyper realistic right now.

I want to upgrade from Win8 to 10 first though on my main Computer because I plan on doing a full reset / wipe after the upgrade to get a clean install of Win10. Can't do any of that until Oculus release a Windows 10 SDK and Runtime for the Rift though so everything is on hold at the moment.

Regards
Sharp

jerrythek · Post by **jerrythek** » Thu Aug 06, 2015 11:08 am

I reviewed version 5 a few months ago for US Keyboard Magazine. I compared 4 to 5 and I heard clear and significant improvements in the new version. The last vestiges of "not quite real" we're removed (to my ears). I highly recommend making the upgrade.

Cheers,

Jerry

Post by **Sharp** » Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:56 am

Thanks Jerry.
I'll certainly go for it. Last time I looked at my account on their site, I got the impression I could install it on 3 machines so I may get it now for my Windows Tablet and install a second copy later on my main PC after it's upgraded to Win10.

Do you have the Harp model? I'm especially interested in getting that one too.

Kind regards
James

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